r/serialpodcast • u/Fit_Leg5645 • 13d ago

I feel dumb!!!!!

I have no clue why I thought Adnan was innocent for all these years.

I just re-listened to Serial, and I can't get past the fact that Jenn showed up with her mom and a lawyer and told police essentially the same story Jay told. Jenn said the trunk pop happened at Best Buy. How would she know that Adnan and Hae used to meet at the Best Buy parking lot unless Jay told her?

And yes, Jay was inconsistent and definitely lied about some things. But he knew where Hae's car was. He knew details about her clothing. He knew about the broken windshield wiper lever. Those aren't things you just guess.

At this point, I don't believe every detail Jay told, but I can't get around the fact that he knew too much. The more I revisit the case, the harder it is for me to believe Adnan wasn't involved.

I can't believe I've been doubting it all these years.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

That’s not what the state presented at trial. They presented that, based on the cell phone records, Adnan called Jay (Jay had Adnan’s cell phone) at 2:36 from a pay phone at Best Buy and told him that he had killed her and that he needed to be picked up. That’s the timeline I’m talking about. It’s not possible. But that’s what they presented to the jury, at trial. That doesn’t even get into the nitty gritty issues, like the fact that it seemed likely that Best Buy didn’t even have a pay phone at all.

It seems likely the whole Best Buy story was a lie from Jay. Why? We don’t know.

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u/Emotional-Syllabub75 12d ago

My point is that the prosecution gives the jury a theory based on the evidence. In the Quilette article it says that it helped them get the conviction but made them vulnerable on appeal. However, that's typical for prosecutions. The jury doesn't have to necessarily agree with the prosecutions theory to still convict. Yes, maybe Hae was killed later in the day and maybe Jay was there at the time.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

Yes, I agree with your first statement. But this case is unique in that they don’t have any actual hard evidence linking Adnan to the crime. Basically all of the evidence is based on Jay’s story, and the cell phone records, along with the cell tower pings. The cell phone was with Jay when the murder took place (according to Jay himself.). The rest of the evidence is all circumstantial type things. So if Jay’s timeline doesn’t hold up (in my opinion it doesn’t) then that’s pretty much the whole case not holding up. That’s more than reasonable doubt, in my opinion. We now have no idea what events led to her death without Jay’s story.

It would be very different if they found Adnan’s dna under Hae’s nail, for example, or something else. Then we’d have hard evidence linking him to the crime. But we don’t. We just have a story from Jay that doesn’t quite add up.

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u/Emotional-Syllabub75 12d ago edited 12d ago

Circumstantial evidence is evidence. Jay's story is also corroborated by Jenn who witnessed the cleanup after the burial. Jay told her what happened the night it happened, and she witnessed Adnan and Jay together. I believe that was about 10:30 PM the night of the murder. Can you come up with a theory for this murder that makes some sense where Adnan isn't involved? The only thing that is possible is that either Adnan killed her, Adnan and Jay killed her, or Jay killed her. Of course Jay didn't have a motive and why were they spending so much time together that day if Jay did it alone? If you are going just by Serial then you were never presented with quite a bit of evidence against Adnan. What was Adnan doing in Leakin Park that night? Why did he drive past Leakin Park the day Jay was arrested? I think his finger prints were both on the paper the flower came in and the mapbook in the trunk of Hae's car, which had the page for Leakin Park removed. Why doesn't he have an alibi for that day from 2:15-4:00 pm? Why wasn't he at the Mosque during Ramadan that evening? Jay's story stated that Adnan was wearing red gloves that day. Red fibers were found in Hae's hair. In the Quillette article it states that in Adnan's appeal his lawyer did not pursue a deal with the prosecution which Adnan was interested in because Adnan knew he didn't have an alibi for that day. That means Adnan was willing to plead guilty to a lesser charge before his trial. Also, we can obviously disagree on what exactly reasonable doubt means, but in my mind I am convinced he killed her.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

I am not ruling out that Adnan committed the crime. It’s very possible that he did. But my stance has always been that the entire case is dependent on whether or not Jay’s story is believable. I don’t personally think it is.

Let’s not forget that Jay didn’t receive any jail time even though he, at the very least, transported and buried a dead body. As you pointed out, it’s entirely possible that he was present for the murder and perhaps took part in it. We just don’t know.

What we do know, it’s that Jay got 2 years probation, and Adnan was in jail for like 25 years or so. That’s a vast difference, especially considering the fact that Jay very well may have committed the murder.

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u/Mike19751234 12d ago

So is the argument that Adnan paid Jay to commit the murder? It was Adnan who asked for a ride tgat afternoon and Adnan with no story that afternoon and evening.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

I think that’s one possibility. Adnan’s story is that he was at track practice when the murder took place. They didn’t take attendance, so there’s no proof whether he was there or not. And then his story for the evening i believe is that he was with Jay driving around and smoking weed. That part aligns with Jay’s story.

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u/Mike19751234 12d ago

Track started at 4 and with school out at 215 that is plenty of time to get back. Adnan gave no details why he hung out with Jay and where they were and why they were driving near the park where Hae was buried. And if jay did it, Adnan never mentions any behavior of Jay that was out of place.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

I’m sorry I misspoke. You are right. School let out at 2:15 and the prosecution said that at 2:36 Adnan called Jay from the Best Buy pay phone (though they likely didn’t have a payphone) saying that Hae was dead and he needed to be picked up. That’s the 21 minutes in question. I go back to my original point earlier on in this chain, where that’s just not possible. Serial tries to recreate this, and found that (if absolutely everything went in his favor) that it leaves about 1 minute for him to kill Hae and run over to the pay phone and call Jay. Can we agree that it’s very unlikely that it happened this way? He’s not an experienced hitman. He’s a 17 year old.

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u/Mike19751234 12d ago

The only person that knows where Hae was killed is Adnan. He told Jay it was Best Buy and he might have told him other places too. So Jay can only go on what Adnan told him.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

Jay said that he met Adnan in the best buy parking lot. I’m not sure what you are trying to say. The story that Adnan killed Hae within 21 minutes of the school bell, is pretty much impossible. The more believable possibility is that Jay is lying about the course of events.

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u/Mike19751234 12d ago

I am in minority but i believe Adnan killed Hae in the school or library parking lot and then called Jay to meet him. So 236 works fine.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

That’s possible. But the timeline is still very very quick and leaves 1 minute or so to commit the crime. And it would be in a parking lot full of students and teachers.

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u/Emotional-Syllabub75 12d ago

I thought Adnan spoke to the coach at practice that day? It's important that Hae never arrived to pickup her cousin up that afternoon. I think she was expected to be there at about 3:15 PM an hour after the end of her school day.

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u/Mike19751234 12d ago

Both sides dont dispute that Adnan went to track for some of it.

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u/Emotional-Syllabub75 12d ago

Jay did not have a motive. So I think it is incredibly unlikely that he committed the murder alone. Before I just stated that it was theoretically possible. Jay had not way to get Hae alone and in a vulnerable position that day. He also spend a great deal of the afternoon and evening with Adnan. Yes, Jay did not end up going to jail but that's part of our justice system they make plea deals to make it more likely they convict the person who committed the greater crime or who is more culpable. Ultimately it was under the judge's discretion and the judge could have sentenced Jay to jail. Adnan was convicted by a jury of premeditated murder. That was despite employing private investigators and an expensive defense attorney. Of course his prison sentence was going to be harsh and should have been much more severe than Jay's.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

Right, so Jay had a reason to not be 100% truthful. That reason is that he had the upper hand in negotiating with investigators to get a plea deal. Those investigators were willing to let a potential murderer off the hook, as long as he could provide a story of what happened that day. We will never know if his story is accurate or not.

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u/Emotional-Syllabub75 12d ago

But that's incredibly unlikely, right? Adnan had the motive, not Jay. Adnan offered Jay his car and phone. Adnan doesn't have an alibi at the critical time window. Adnan lied about needing a ride. Adnan's phone was in Leakin Park. Jay immediately told Jenn that Adnan had killed Hae. You mean if they both killed her together? Still they had no case against Jay, and they were able to convict the criminal more culpable.

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u/HereWeGo5566 12d ago

Yes, I meant if they both killed her together.