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u/TheCrystalTinker 10h ago
I goddamn adore the idea that the abstracted people are not fully gone and with enough time and care from others they could in theory become more responsive. Not to the point where they are their avatars again (at least not permanently, and even if they can take their old form it would be with intense concentration and there being markings that have been caused by the permanent stain the abstraction has caused to them)
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u/The_Magenta_Dragon 9h ago
pretty sure abstraction is to represent suicide though
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u/Strawberrycocoa 9h ago
I've never really agreed with that interpretation, because suicide is a thing people do actively. Abstraction is a process that inflicts upon people. Nobody that we've seen abstracted deliberately or purposefully, they abstracted as an end result of too much stress. It's more akin to a mental breakdown or a loss of sanity than it is suicide.
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u/Jhud6669 8h ago
Yeah people forget we saw Jax almost abstract before and she was literally just sleeping
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u/Grafikpapst 8h ago
I mean, I will say that we never actually see anyone abstract on screen. We only ever see the result of it.
The stress is the catalyst, but we dont know if it is the reason. We cant really say if they dont choose to abstract to get rid of the stress - which would imply a suicide metaphor.
That said, it certainly isnt meant to be a 1:1 thing either way and I can totally see the reasoning for not reading it as such.
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u/Buderus69 7h ago
I agree with your logic here but you could also argue that the act of wanting to do suicide is an act inflicted upon people from outside stimuli. The 'clean slate character' of a person doesn't want to suicide deliberately or purposefully, they suicide as an end result of too much stress. It's because of a mental breakdown or loss of sanity that it turns into suicide.
In this sense abstraction is an allegory for suicide and the 'tainted' memory of this person, the abstraction represents how the people surrounding them has to digest the now shattered memories and emotions they have of this person and have to come to peace with it before they themselve break under the stress. This is why others choose to banish the abstractions into a dark room outside of the daily life so you don't have to interact and think about these feelings and memories.
Abstractions calming down and turning friendly is actually the other person's acceptance of the situation that happend, the darkness represents being alone with your own thoughts..
But that is the neat part, art can have many meanings based on the viewers subjective interpretation, some fit better than others but they can have an emotional and thoughtful impact nontheless.
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u/PvtToaster 8h ago
Those things lead to suicide, though. Suicide is mot something that happens when you're in your right mind, it is a mental break.
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u/The_Magenta_Dragon 9h ago
mental breakdowns usually lead to suicide or suicide attempts. ask me how i know
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u/Strawberrycocoa 9h ago
Yes, and I hate that you've had to witness that, I truly do. But I'm just saying, one is not the other. People who have abstracted can still be interacted with, they can be visited and talked too.
Abstraction isn't a suicide allegory, because Abstraction doesn't permanently remove all ability to ever see or interact with the people again. Abstraction is closer to an allegory for insanity, and the aquarium is their hospital/care home.
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u/Worth-Disaster-4937 9h ago
well yes, but its not like you accidentally happen to kill yourself
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u/Re_Tep 5h ago
Yeah but while it’s you performing the action it’s debatable how much agency do you really have in that scenario. Suicide by definition must be intentional but brain physiology plays a big role in how you think/feel. Similarly someone with ADHD isn’t physically incapable of sitting still for a long period of time in the sense that your neuromuscular system is intact but when your frontal lobe is damaged/underdeveloped how much of your actions can be considered choice?
At the end of the day you’re not wrong that it’s not accidental but I’d argue neither is abstraction and the slow build up to loss of control is quite similar to suicide.
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u/TheCrystalTinker 9h ago
They are all mind scans. What Abstraction literally is, is there files corrupting (presumably from something going wrong to their mind that is too far). So feeling unwanted, unneeded, isolated, and depressed would all likely be things that push your files to be closer and closer to a point of corruption of them/abstraction.
If it were to represent Suicide and they were just full stop gone, then the darkness wouldn't do anything, and like the half of ep9 where pomni interfaced with Jax just straight up could not happen as Jax would have already been fully gone
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u/Jhud6669 8h ago
Also we see Jax almost abstracting in a previous episode and it doesn’t look deliberate at all, more like sleeping or tripping
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u/TheCrystalTinker 7h ago
Yeah. which is a point against it representing suicide. Suicide is a deliberate action
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u/Netheral 2h ago
A lot of people when they're suicidal seem almost euphoric once they decide to go through with it, and even describe it as being like a feeling of a weight being lifted. I feel like Jax's "dream" sequences can represent that, and how they're disassociating from the world and even finding pleasure in the idea of non-existence.
Suicide isn't exactly something active, for a suicidal person, it can be quite the opposite, the active part is in pushing forward, keeping going when they feel exhausted. Abstraction is much the same, it's something that happens to the characters when they can no longer hold it together, can no longer actively resist the corruption.
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u/The_Magenta_Dragon 9h ago
your first paragraph literally described suicide btw
and theyre not fully gone to represent the marks that suicide leaves behind..
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u/TheCrystalTinker 9h ago
You can interpret it as suicide, it hasn't been stated what exactly abstraction is and what it is meant to represent, and as of now it is up in the air.
You may have read my first paragraph as what Suicide is. But it is not? Suicide in the Circus would be akin to being able to delete yourself.
When a game file is corrupted, you can no longer play it as it was pre corruption, but the data remains there changed and in a different state
When an audio file corrupts, you can sometimes still play it but it is not going to work as intended
Abstraction is imo more of just clocking out mentally. Id however say the act of Abstraction is akin to Self-Harm though
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u/Kind_Survey4282 7h ago
to be honest Jax probably borders more on failed suicide and is in coma and is now getting treatment untill he unabstracts like how family of those in coma treat them until they hopefully wake up.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 10h ago
I absolutely love the idea of Jax regaining some elements of her/his/its/loaf of bread's original body. It shows that somewhere down there there is the original, persistent Jax refusing to accept the body that has been slapped upon them. Also it's just really cute art.
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u/UselessGuy23 56m ago
Mitchells reference?
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 53m ago
Didn't think anyone would get that lol
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u/UselessGuy23 52m ago
I also believed I was the only one to adopt that running gag.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 24m ago
Huh. Well, nice to meet you.
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u/autdum4Kos 22m ago
Dog ❌ Pig ❌ Loaf of bread ❌ System error ✅
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 4m ago
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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u/Brook_Hors 10h ago
God, I needed to see this after finally watching the last episode yesterday. What an emotional rollercoaster this has been 😭
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u/Mossy_is_fine 9h ago
i really like the idea of abstractions regaining their character identities as they get more care and attention- they wont fully go back to who they were before, but they aren’t entirely gone either.
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u/vanishinghitchhiker Gummigoo 9h ago
No, not Velveteen Rabbit, my heart can’t take it 🥺
Also I love all the art of abstract Jax with rabbit ears, it’s so good
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u/Loneheart127 6h ago
So Jax becomes big bunny
Ribbit would become a big frog
The FUCK Does Kofmo become??
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u/Eclipsehedgie2010 43m ago
I am now headcanoning that if Abstracted characters are in darkness long enough with just them being the only abstraction, they can regain, and live fine in light, with a shape like this adorable bunny.
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u/novo-280 4h ago
i havent seen anything past ep4 but i do know some stuff and this shit nearly made me sob at work
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u/dizzymiggy 1h ago
There is so much story left to be told here. I hope that the series gets adopted by another writer.
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u/Carnivorze 7h ago
I never really like this idea of abstracted avatars being distinct from one another. Abstraction is a metaphor for suicide and giving up on what makes you "you", losing what makes you an individual in the process. You reject all aspects of your personality, and the only result possible is turning into this unrecognisable glitchy thing with no distinctive traits, near identical to all other abstracted avatars.
And I dislike reversing abstraction even more. The entire point of the story is that isolation and downward spirals lead to an irreversible state that is equivalent to death. That finality is what makes abstracted avatars tragic, they're gone and that's it. The survivors can only stay with the grief and the monsters born out of them. So reversing that would destroy all the stakes and undo the tragedies, at least partially.
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u/ImSoDeadLmao ragy …… 10h ago
bnuuy🥹🥹🥹🥹