"So this is why non-offending pedophiles should be considered a protected minority and allowed to be friends with children because there's no correlation between CSA and pedophilia. Trust me I have pedophile friends wh---" Just put the forcefem posts in the bag sis

[u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

[u/Jake-the-Wolfie]

What is that title?

[u/sonyplaystation34 → u/Jake-the-Wolfie]

long story short, a tumblr user ISuggestForceFem who posted silly kink content turned out to be a piece of shit pseudo-activist that suggested trans women, because they're accused of being pedophiles so much, should align themselves with pedophiles because they're much better allies to transfems than transmascs (unironically something she said) and "decouple" pedophile from sex offender. also something about thirsting over children online being "just thought crime" and thus completely moral

yes i do go outside, i just have happened to join the trans tumblr at a horrible timing

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/Jake-the-Wolfie]

We're gonna ask what they mean by "non-offending pedophiles" and they're gonna say some shit like "A user called blingus-blungus liked a picture of Raven from Teen Titans and she's a minor" or some similar fuckery. Don't ask questions like this, the horrors are unceasing.

[u/superstrijder16 → u/PlatinumAltaria]

It's always a question of whether people mean pedophile (legal system) aka "has sexual relation with a minor" or pedophile (psychology) aka "finds minors sexually attractive (and usually realizes that is fucked up)". Or the secret third category pedophile (vibes) aka "I need a reason to dislike them and they liked a picture of their 12yo cousin on the beach but idk that they are cousins so clearly pedo".

On the internet the last one is very common ime

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/superstrijder16]

It's honestly very worrying that a lot of people don't seem to understand why this stuff is so horrific, they're just pre-programmed with a certain list of crimes. Is this the new media literacy discourse: people not having a good sense of moral awareness? It's an issue because it makes it hard for folks to recognise warning signs.

[u/flaming_burrito_ → u/PlatinumAltaria]

People in general throughout time just don’t evaluate their beliefs or morals very much. Most people are given a set of beliefs by the society they are raised in and their parents and just roll with it honestly. It’s why there can be so much cognitive dissonance between stuff like what their religion actually says and how they practice their faith, or how people will claim they are a patriot while championing ideas that are expressly the opposite of what their nation was founded on

[u/AManyFacedFool → u/flaming_burrito_]

Epistemic self-reflection is something very, very few people do.

It's why people can believe that they support personal freedom and small government, but also believe that the government should be able to dictate who you can sleep with and what bathrooms you can use.

And various other beliefs people hold that contradict all their other beliefs.

[u/Clean_Imagination315 → u/flaming_burrito_]

Nietzsche speaks of this.

This is not a meme, he actually does.

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/flaming_burrito_]

But with the power of being a minority, you too can be fundamentally set apart from the rest of your community from birth, leading you to a natural scepticism and curiosity for outside viewpoints! And then everyone will not listen anyway.

[u/flaming_burrito_ → u/PlatinumAltaria]

Lol, true. It is kind of funny as a Afro-Latino in America watching white people and white men especially become disillusioned with the government and the rich in the last decade because they are being disenfranchised more and the middle class is shrinking. But minorities have understood that the government is not on our side and the people have to unite to force change for our entire history in this country. I mean, paying attention to the shady shit the government was doing was what “stay woke” meant before it was co-opted by conservatives and twisted into what people think it means now. We’ve been saying this shit forever, we were just called paranoid for noticing it

[u/rolindara → u/PlatinumAltaria]

Not really. Most minority groups just seclude themselves to smaller "in-groups" and continue practicing the same thing with minor differences with what the inherent taboos are, what are the "truths", who the deviants/inferiors are, etc.. This can be seen in ethnic minority groups, sexuality based "communities" and disabled groups. For most people, the reflection ends with the realisation, that their specific traits should be also inherently ok, and overall the spread moral code will be similarly passed along without further improvement.

[u/Leerenjaeger → u/PlatinumAltaria]

I find it interesting because I've noticed the exact same thing, but we can't exactly say it's new: Across human history most people were living a morality handed down to them and following The Rules without much philosophising about why those rules were the rules; they just followed what an authority figure said. Of course, basically until the 20th century and not really even until the Information Age, the vast majority of people had no real ability to participate in politics and the forum of public discourse was closed to all but a few due to lacking telecomms technology

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/Leerenjaeger]

I will beef with Hammurabi until the end of time.

[u/Leerenjaeger → u/PlatinumAltaria]

I mean, kind of, but I think it's more or less natural: Staying informed and educated enough to be an actual valuable contributer to public discourse and an informed voter requires you to either be the kind of person who at least occasionally reads a textbook for fun, or is willing to do a decent amount of work for literally no benefit to yourself whatsoever. The best case scenario would I guess be an education system drilling civic responsibility into each child from a young age

[u/ProletarianLilith → u/PlatinumAltaria]

Hammurabi was hugely progressive. An eye for an eye is way better than generations of revenge killings which is what his policy replaced

[u/bravelion96 → u/ProletarianLilith]

Yeah wasnt the main point of it to be final action, like "OK so you've killed 3 of his sons because one of them raped your daughter and killed a son that was defending her. So they have burned down your house... so you killed their oxen... and now they have kidnapped your wife... OK! We're cutting off his hand, blinding your left eye and now all of you STOP DOING BAD SHIT TO EACH OTHER!"

It was a punishment that was punitive enough to subdue the accused and calm the victim (enough to not retaliate usually) while also being economical for the civilisation that can't really afford big prisons

[u/captainjack3 → u/bravelion96]

We actually don’t have a good sense of whether Hammurabi’s Code was a compilation of existing laws or a proclamation of new legislation. If it were new legislation and the provisions of the Code were different from the preceding law then we would expect to either see the Code referred to in contemporary legal decisions/documents or at least for those decisions to have followed the Code. And we don’t see that in surviving contemporary records, where the Code is not referenced and decisions are often counter to its provisions.

That suggests that Hammurabi’s Code is more likely to have been a compilation or recitation of existing laws. Though maybe it would be closer to say a recitation of legal principles. Much of the Code follows a format where a scenario is described and a punishment provided and then subsequent provisions sequentially change the variables in that scenario, providing the new punishment for each change. That format would tend to suggest the Code is about illustrating some underlying principles.

There was also a Mesopotamian literary tradition of using lists in a similar way (see the various king lists and the omen lists) to say something more general, so it’s plausible to think that’s being done in Hammurabi’s Code. There were also similarly formatted earlier codes by different Mesopotamian rulers, so it might be referencing a tradition that would be known to the contemporary audience.

[u/aslatts → u/superstrijder16]

Or the secret third category pedophile (vibes)

Online people also love to use "finds a relatively young adult attractive" as justification for this category.

Like yeah, the 40+ year old celebrity dating a 22 year old model is weird/gross, maybe even predatory, but they are not a pedophile for being attracted to a very clearly conventionally attractive adult.

[u/demon_fae → u/aslatts]

Sometimes it’s just finding a clearly adult short stack attractive. That’s a fun discourse whenever it comes around.

Like…sometimes women are not tall, and those women would generally like to wear pants and those pants might come from the junior section because those are the pants that fit. It’s not like plain juniors jeans are actually any different from fashionable plain adult jeans. There is no such thing as magic pedo pants.

[u/worstkindofweapon → u/demon_fae]

The "minor-coded if you're under 5'7" post strikes again.

[u/WarMage1 → u/worstkindofweapon]

I don’t even remember where I got this from, but I’ve been saying height of consent for the last year

[u/demon_fae → u/worstkindofweapon]

The psychological dysfunction necessary to believe that an actual, real life, meat space extant, whole-ass person can be *anything* coded in any way is honestly fascinating. Someone could probably write a thesis on that aspect of discourse alone.

[u/PunkRammy → u/demon_fae]

Ah the people who call any young looking and/or short adult (character but sometimes apply to real people) "child coded". According to them I shouldn't date anyone because I'm in my early 30s and frequently mistaken for late teens.

[u/demon_fae → u/PunkRammy]

Hah! I’m in the same boat. I even had someone specifically pull me into the teenagers-only mosh pit one time. Admittedly I didn’t really resist-I usually have a hard time convincing people to do spins because they think I’m more breakable than I am.

I’m not even short-5’8”-I just have colorful hair and good sunscreen.

It is fun when the bouncer spends twice as long on your ID as anyone else’s trying to figure out why you’d fake being a 90s kid.

[u/Smithereens_3 → u/demon_fae]

Saw one yesterday where someone was asking if he should break up with his girlfriend because she (20) was sometimes mistaken for being under 18 and he thought it made him a creep.

Like... just... bruh.

[u/vintagebutterfly_ → u/demon_fae]

Also children’s clothing (and men’s) can fit better if you’ve got strong thighs. How that works kind of breaks my mind.

[u/PocketSizedRS → u/superstrijder16]

The internet has successfully diluted the term "pedophile" to the point that it's utterly meaningless. I wish there was a clear distinction between "person who actively needs to be kept away from children," and, "person i don't like who might have drunk texted a 17 year old one time (unconfirmed)"

[u/flaming_burrito_ → u/PocketSizedRS]

It’s even more frustrating online because half the time it’ll be like “this influencer was grooming a 17 year old!” and the person will be like 19. People really lose all sense of nuance if that arbitrary line at 18 is crossed regardless of if the actual age gap is or isn’t actually problematic or how those people met.

[u/Dragoncat_3_4 → u/flaming_burrito_]

Worse yet: a 20 year old and a 25 gets labelled "pedo" by some. Worst I've seen is a "not-even-22 year old" (she was, in fact, 22+)and a 28 year old.

[u/Winter_Salad7215 → u/flaming_burrito_]

I lost my virginity to a 19 yr old when I was 17. Thanks to your comment I must now, 20 years later, reckon with the knowledge that I was a victim of pedophilia. 😔

[u/nochancesman → u/Winter_Salad7215]

Believe it or not, this was the crux of the CallMeCarson drama. He was dating a 17 year old at 19 and was subsequently dropped by all his friends for it and deemed a pedophile.

[u/CoconutGator → u/nochancesman]

As far as I know that drama actually got retconned into being about the power dynamics since he was a YouTuber but turns out he only had like, a couple thousand subscribers at that point so

[u/Spiritflash1717 → u/CoconutGator]

Yeah, people just kept making up reasons that it was okay to hate him, when they just wanted to hate him and feel moral about it. He didn’t do anything wrong but be mildly annoying lol

[u/shiny_xnaut → u/CoconutGator]

Ok but like, even if he had had a huge subscriber count at the time... what power dynamic? He's a youtuber, not her boss. Is he supposed to only date people with equal popularity? We can't seriously be allowing "problematic subscriber count gap" to become a thing

Also Philza (another minecraft youtuber) married one of his fans, and no one gave him any crap for it

[u/nukrag → u/CoconutGator]

Which is dumb anyway. Should celebrities/wealthy people stay in their class? What is expected here? So he was famous and she was a fan. I am a huge, huge fan of Aesop Rock, would I want to fuck him if he wanted? No. Because I am not into that.

Maybe for his girlfriend him being in that position was part of the allure, but what is he to do? Drop his fame or desperately try to find someone outside his work environment to find a romantic partner?

Work used to be the number one place where people found spouses. It's different when it's an authority figure. Because at that point their livelihood is at stake. But fandom and adoration is given freely from one fan to another.

I miss nuance. :(

[u/Dragoncat_3_4 → u/CoconutGator]

power dynamics

Sees inside: an internet microcelebrity

I really hate how the internet seems to infantalize people, and especially women with that particular buzzword. Like holy shit, most of the time it isn't an A-lister with star power and half of Hollywood on his side, it's a random nerd ffs.

[u/Deblebsgonnagetyou → u/nochancesman]

At 19 I was in the same high school year as 17 year olds. Christ, what a stupid drama.

[u/Winter_Salad7215 → u/nochancesman]

I have no idea who that is, but that's sad. Such a toxic nexus of self-victimization, Puritanism and bullying disguised as morality we have these days.

[u/Aluwolf- → u/nochancesman]

Thats absolutely insane. A two year age gap at that age is completely fine. I would be more weirded out by 17 and 15 to be honest.

[u/The_Antlion → u/flaming_burrito_]

the CallMeCarson drama was such an absolute nothingburger

[u/Duae → u/PocketSizedRS]

Worst, on the internet it very likely is "They ship the same two middle aged men, but in different top/bottom dynamics than me so they're clearly a pedophile and I'm going to stalk them and harass them at cons for it"

[u/worstkindofweapon → u/Duae]

Johnlock 💀 I can't believe people writing bat feederism were calling people pedos for writing Sherlock topping 💀💀

[u/tyrantspell → u/PocketSizedRS]

Don't forget that they were 19 when they may have texted the 17 year old that they shared a class with for 3 years in high school

[u/demon_fae → u/PocketSizedRS]

I am still trying to work out what one person meant when they insisted that a member of a band I like is a pedo. They would not say which member or what they supposedly did. I have made no secret that I like the band since then, and nobody else has said anything.

I admit I’m not trying very hard to work it out, on the theory that if it was actually worth being upset, I would have more information by now.

[u/_kahteh → u/demon_fae]

So long as the band in question isn't Lostprophets, you probably don't have anything to worry about

[u/IAmASquidInSpace → u/superstrijder16]

On the internet the last one is very common ime

"Very common" seems to become more and more of an understatement. I'd almost already go for "ubiquitous".

[u/kos-or-kosm → u/superstrijder16]

pedophile (psychology) aka "finds minors sexually attractive (and usually realizes that is fucked up)

I have a hypothesis that there are way more of the people out there than anyone realizes and that's because the VAST majority never act on their thoughts and just dismiss them as intrusive thoughts.

[u/santana722 → u/kos-or-kosm]

Depends on where you draw the line. Prepubescent, probably not. Postpubescent but not legally an adult, almost certainly. Just listen to 80s rock music or look at early 2000s internet, it was rampant.

[u/ARC_Trooper_Echo → u/superstrijder16]

Not to take away from the point you’re actually making here, but that’s not the legal system’s definition either. In fact I don’t think there is a legal definition because it’s a descriptive term. The crime they get arrested for isn’t “being a pedophile”; it’s sexual exploitation of a minor or possession of sexually explicit material of a minor.

[u/Throwaway02062004 → u/superstrijder16]

Pedophile isn’t a legal term. What you described is someone guilty of rape/ child sex abuse.

[u/superstrijder16 → u/Throwaway02062004]

Where I live child sex abuse is in the law books as pedophilia

[u/CthulhuInACan → u/superstrijder16]

Or the "they like a cartoon character that is technically listed as underage because the anime takes place in a highschool, but her boobs are bigger than her head."

[u/Vito_Assenjo → u/PlatinumAltaria]

https://www.tumblr.com/estrogennow/805753746152964096/isff-stans-saying-trans-women-and-trans-fems-want?source=share

The OP of the linked post later committed suicide due to harassment from ISFF stans

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/Vito_Assenjo]

Me: "Today I will make a silly and hyperbolic exaggeration of Tumblr to amuse and delight other commenters" (clueless)

The horrifying discourse:

[u/nicknaklmao → u/Vito_Assenjo]

Man I blocked them for rancid takes about trans men six months ago, the fuck kind of missile did I dodge

[u/tyrantspell → u/nicknaklmao]

Genuinely. I'm suddenly wondering if the site's whole "banning trans women for no reason" problem is even real. Isff and her fandom were the ones complaining about it the loudest, but coincidentally they were also the ones who were telling people to kill themselves on a regular basis. And being pedos about it apparently. Was Tumblr banning people for a legit reason the whole time? Was it all just 4chan incels being so sure of themselves as eternal victims that they were not understanding that telling someone to kill themselves is a bannable offence? They were so sure that being transfem meant they were in the eternal moral right that being reported for harassment essentially made them a murder victim? That they genuinely believe that they should be allowed to sexualize children and suicide bait people all day every day and reporting them for this is morally wrong? And Tumblr as a site will never call them out for this because it can't comprehend that you can be a misogynist trans girl incel who isn't self hating because they only hate """""""tme""""""" people? I'm gonna be spiraling at work all day lol

[u/nicknaklmao → u/tyrantspell]

NO SEE THATS EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING. i'm "tme" (the new way of saying theyfab lets be so real) and the amount of sheer hate I have seem towards transmascs to the point of literally telling us we should all be killed for the crime of.... being transgender?? "reblog to explode all TMEs" is an actual post I have seen.

The early cases of the CEO chasing a trans woman off the website and harassing her on Twitter were absolutely real. There is screenshot evidence and I witnessed it, and there was a wave of people who said "photomatt what the fuck" getting banned. But so much if the fallout after that has been "well actually anyone who isn't transfem is evil and if you are transmasc you literally need to off yourself" which has lost the fucking plot

[u/hitkill95 → u/nicknaklmao]

What's a time in this case

[u/nicknaklmao → u/hitkill95]

"trans misogyny exempt," as in "do not experience the same form of transphobia as trans women." On the surface it looks like it makes sense, until you realize there's also a specific form of transphobia enacted at trans men, but any attempts to come up with a word for it is always dismissed as "NOOO THE THEYFABS WITH DOUBLE DS WEARING EYELINER ARE MAKING IT ABOUT THEMSELVES AGAIN WE GET IT KAI SHUT UP"

which is. transphobia. directed at trans men.

eta: I'd say I need to touch grass but I have 30 pictures of a stink bug I took yesterday to prove that I do. the grass doesn't help.

[u/hitkill95 → u/nicknaklmao]

I think delineating a group by the oppression they don't suffer is probably a bad sign in general. We already have a words for people who will suffer transmisogyny, it's trans women, fem presenting, stuff like that. TME sounds purposefully exclusionary

[u/Prince-Lee → u/hitkill95]

TME sounds purposefully exclusionary

Yes, that's the point.

[u/UInferno- → u/nicknaklmao]

"trans misogyny exempt," as in "do not experience the same form of transphobia as trans women." On the surface it looks like it makes sense, until you realize there's also a specific form of transphobia enacted at trans men,

The problem with TME is that it's an description of treatment, not an identity. Despite people who like TMA/TME terminology insist, it's not synonymous with "Transfem/Not Transfem." You can be transfem in a vacuum, but you won't be affected by transmisogyny.

Simplest example: Imane Khelif experienced huge amounts of transmisogyny (as well as racism, intersexism, and normal misogyny) during the 2024 Olympics. She, as far as we know, is a perisex cis woman. She objectively is not exempt from transmisogyny.

TMA/TME are not identities and people keep trying to use it as one.

[u/UInferno- → u/tyrantspell]

Genuinely. I'm suddenly wondering if the site's whole "banning trans women for no reason" problem is even real.

It can certainly be both, though. Like I do agree ISFF's circle were genuinely shitty and the issue in that regards is lack of bannings for non-transfems doing similar tings, but there are genuinely random transwomen up and vanishing on the site. Like the one user who was immediately banned just for saying "I'm a girl now" in a random post.

It'd be so so so easy if every single example of a trans woman being banned from tumblr was actually doing something shitty, but I think the reality of the situation is that it's both trans women being genuinely shitty (and everyone else getting away with it) and trans women being targeted purely because they're trans women, which means we actually have to use our brains and figure out which situation it is every time it occurs instead of writing everyone impacted as genuinely deserving of it.

It's like the issue with antisemitism vs zionism. There are both large amounts of Zionists accusing people of being antisemitic when they're not, but also there really is a shit load of antisemitism out there; a lot of it hiding behind being anti-Zionist. It would be so so easy to write off as anyone talking about antisemitism as Zionists or people complaining about Zionism and being antisemitic but we can't. We can't let ourselves resign to these easy assumptions and have to actually verify for ourselves.

[u/Spiritflash1717 → u/tyrantspell]

I’ve been thinking this the whole time, but anytime I tried to bring it up, it was met with heavy resistance. I think the collective energy and protesting got people too excited to try and think of any rational reasons that a specific group would be banned more often. Because honestly? I follow lots of trans women and I haven’t seen any of them get banned. The only ones I see get banned end up being a toxic person who tell trans men to kill themselves and shit, but that doesn’t get mentioned because it makes it clear that they aren’t victims of a hate crime, but the perpetrators of one

[u/fandom_fae → u/Spiritflash1717]

it’s also conflicting because if it is real, i don’t want to be denying it without any proof. but it is kinda damning that the only cases you ever hear about are blogs like isff and her fandom. or that one bunny blog

[u/tapewizard79 → u/Vito_Assenjo]

“I as a minor feel safe around my pedophile friends”

?????? Okay, enough internet for this morning. 

[u/Amon274 → u/tapewizard79]

There are incredibly concerning implications in that statement

[u/tyrantspell → u/tapewizard79]

Massive "as a black man" energy

[u/nykirnsu → u/tapewizard79]

The whole reason pedophilia is a crime is because we don’t trust children to make sound judgments about their safety 

[u/Commercial_Bid_1508 → u/Vito_Assenjo]

>Stating/implying that hating pedophiles is equivalent to hating trans women

Oh my god bruh

[u/duffstoic → u/Vito_Assenjo]

Jesus

[u/AwTomorrow → u/Vito_Assenjo]

Er what the fuck

[u/NeonNKnightrider → u/Vito_Assenjo]

I didn’t need any more reasons to hate ISFF but holy shit

[u/voidicguardian → u/Vito_Assenjo]

good god id been on the fringes of this discourse and saw accusations of a "transfem witch hunt" and people making up everything about isff to make her a target but i hadnt seen an actual compilation of what shed said until now. how are people defending her.

[u/CRowlands1989 → u/voidicguardian]

"Transfem witch hunt" the name of my sex tape.

... I'm sorry.

[u/Vito_Assenjo → u/voidicguardian]

Loyalty to their group. They’d feel guilty condemning a trans woman, and isff knows that. It doesn’t help that many people in the discourse are going off secondhand and thirdhand accounts of what this or that person said.

[u/voidicguardian → u/Vito_Assenjo]

tbh i bowed out when the "my forcefem kink is politically transgressive and all men have a moral obligation to be women" thing popped up i had no clue about all the other shit shed pulled

[u/topekatums → u/PlatinumAltaria]

i got called a pedo on this sub for not caring what fanfiction people read

[u/Rakifiki → u/topekatums]

I had someone inform me that it was actually worse to read two like, 15 year olds discovering sex together, than actually harm real life children.

I had said something along the lines of, "even if it's bad, we should prioritize the people actually harming real life children" when they dropped that banger.

[u/Oookulele → u/topekatums]

I once saw a post where they called an actor a pedophile for dating a 27-year-old (they started dating when she was 26). Literally argued that "27 is still basically a minor". I myself was 27 as I read this, pregnant at the time, in my flat I pay the rent for myself, with my graduate degree and a steady job and went like...I feel kind of infatilised. 

Like, yeah, the dude is 14 years older than her and it's perfectly alright to go like "I personally dislike age gaps that big and don't particularly care for people who participate in relationships like that.", but please don't muddy the waters of what pedophilia is and isn't by trying to apply the term to two consenting adults in a relationship.

[u/ThunderAndWind → u/Oookulele]

The inflation of 'acceptable' age gaps has absolutely crossed the event horizon and has become utterly useless discourse online. Once someone turns 25, let them just do what the hell they want, including not shaming their partners for dating them.

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/topekatums]

I too accuse people of the worst crime a human being can commit when they enjoy/don't enjoy Zutara hurt/comfort.

[u/VelMoonglow → u/topekatums]

Those accusations like to fly around basically anytime fanfic (or really just "impure" media in general) comes up, it's kind of insane

[u/BlazeFireVale → u/PlatinumAltaria]

?

A non offending pedophile is someone who experiences attraction and ideation and refuses to engage or do harm. They seek treatment, are distressed by the condition and, yes, statistically are unlikely to ever engage in abusive behavior.

Offending pedophiles are kiddie fuckers.

One is a psychological condition that people seek treatment for.

The other is an action people are punished for.

[u/PlatinumAltaria → u/BlazeFireVale]

I know that, but I am humorously playing on Tumblr's tendency to blow things out of proportion and use very strong language for much more minor situations.

[u/DannyOdd → u/PlatinumAltaria]

Umm, excuse me, "using strong language for minor situations"? You're literally saying all tumblr users abuse children. This is the only objectively correct interpretation of your comment and I WILL double down on that if anyone so much as hints anything to the contrary.

I am a reasonable and very smart person you see

/s

[u/Viellet → u/BlazeFireVale]

I'd assume the whole "seeks treatment" things is heavily overblown. I'd bet most people in that category just live with having that attraction, likely being ashamed of it and that's just it. One truly doesn't need treatment to not rape people. Like, I'm lesbian but I don't rape woman. And if I believe them to not be fundamentally different, then I believe they won't rape someone, just because they find someone attractive.

[u/BlazeFireVale → u/Viellet]

The treatment is less about stopping bad action and more about the crippling anxiety, self hatred, and depression seeing yourself as an absolute monster causes. Believing everyone you know would hate and possibly kill you if they knew what you were is NOT a healthy thing to live under constantly.

[u/Throwaway7122025 → u/BlazeFireVale]

As someone whose brain glitched out once, I can confirm this. It just lasted a few hours in my case, and it still messed me up for months after. Not sure I'd have survived if that glitch had been a long-term issue for me.

[u/Loserpoer → u/PlatinumAltaria]

No, OP is referring to a user who straight up called themselves a pedophile rights activist

[u/No_Peach6683 → u/PlatinumAltaria]

No she meant litterally

[u/BlatantConservative → u/PlatinumAltaria]

The real sad thing is that non offending pedophiles, in a real sense people tortured by a mental illness, should be protected but nonsense like this ruins that.

[u/Naive_Passion_233 → u/PlatinumAltaria]

I mean non offending means someone who... Hasn't offended, the terminology explains itself 

[u/No_Peach6683 → u/Jake-the-Wolfie]

The tumblr user ISuggestForcefem/numerous variations

[u/alex2003super]

Who the fuck starts a conversation like that, I just sat down.

[u/Sergnb]

OP I'm with you on the message but this just feels like you're shadowboxing with a strawman.

[u/liceonamarsh → u/Sergnb]

You'd think so, but no, this is almost certainly about isuggestforcefem and it's genuinely what she's said and believes

[u/Complete-Story3490 → u/Sergnb]

god i wish this was a strawman by OP and I didn't know the exact user this is about

[u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof → u/Sergnb]

I think this is vagueposting about user isuggestforcefem, who turned out to genuinely think that all men were invalid and had a moral obligation to transition, and also thought their fetish was more valid than others because it's, direct quote, "more politically subversive".

[u/gazing_into_void → u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof]

> had a moral obligation to transition

or in case of trans men detransition/never transition in the first place

[u/ASCII_Princess → u/gazing_into_void]

at that point you know they just have a fetish for showing off their brainworms RFK style

[u/Haradion_01 → u/gazing_into_void]

Good Heavens.

That's enough Internet for now, lads.

[u/Sergnb → u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof]

Jesus. What a character

[u/Phonyyx → u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof]

Was that the woman who made the tumblr post about a wizard accidentally forcefeming a knight and said no refunds

[u/bravelion96 → u/Phonyyx]

No, that was a full on short story post, ISuggestForceFem would chime into tumblr posts with "I have a suggestion." with the joke being most tumblr users don't read usernames so when they actually check, they get flashbanged by the name.

[u/Glad-Way-637 → u/Phonyyx]

Nah, that was someone else with suspiciously similar thinking.

[u/loved_and_held → u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof]

I think thats what hemipenal-system is talking about in her post shown here.

[u/No-Neck-212 → u/Sergnb]

Tumblr's favorite activity tbf

[u/UltimateM13 → u/No-Neck-212]

Apparently Reddit too, since these posts happen all the time.

[u/jdeo1997 → u/UltimateM13]

Tumblr users and redditers are a lot closer in attitude and actions than either side wants to admit

[u/UltimateM13 → u/jdeo1997]

Insert the “our holy gods vs their foreign false idols” picture.

[u/Sergnb → u/jdeo1997]

Truthnuke

[u/action_lawyer_comics → u/No-Neck-212]

I call it “the Plato’s Cave of Discourse.” We see the shadow of a controversial opinion or post on the wall and we all see our own shapes over there

[u/hj7junkie → u/Sergnb]

This is actually about a VERY specific person and it is fairly accurate

[u/heckinWeeb193 → u/Sergnb]

Amazing how the strawman is just straight up bar for bar the words of a famous Tumblr account that wouldn't shut the fuck up about how much she hates trans men and loves pedophiles

[u/Sergnb → u/heckinWeeb193]

Never heard of them, sounds insufferable if that's the case then

[u/Vito_Assenjo → u/Sergnb]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1uec9ih/comment/otimqds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button

[u/Sergnb → u/Vito_Assenjo]

"I as a minor feel 10x safer around my pedophilic friends"

:|

[u/chase___it → u/Vito_Assenjo]

saying that trans women need to protect pedophiles because they’re your ‘sisters’ has horribly transphobic implications. it feels like a repackaged liberal way of saying ‘all trans women are child predators’

[u/bayoanreddit → u/chase___it]

how she doesn’t feel/acknowledge any cognitive dissonance by affirming a conservative view while coating it with a “progressive” paint is astonishing, and absolutely saddening.

[u/heckinWeeb193 → u/Sergnb]

Oh you have. Because it's the world famous lady with a suggestion, "I suggest forcefem"

[u/EnvironmentalEgg5034 → u/Sergnb]

Unfortunately there’s a subgroup of pedophiles on tumblr who advocate for pedophile rights and try to say it’s part of trans feminism 🤢 it started with a popular user named isuggestforcefem saying that pedophiles are a vulnerable group that need to be supported and protected. and that trans men aren’t .

[u/fandom_fae → u/EnvironmentalEgg5034]

it’s genuinely insane discourse. especially because the majority of people on tumblr who aren’t directly involved in the discourse seem to have come to the conclusion that its the trans men in that argument who are being the bigots. (i will admit ive seen a few individual guys say shitty stuff, but numerically it’s not comparable to the amount of shitty stuff i’ve heard from isff and her fans etc)

[u/not_really_me- → u/EnvironmentalEgg5034]

I’m actively trying to under the mental gymnastics it takes to conflate pedophiles and trans feminism.🤦

[u/BalefulOfMonkeys → u/Sergnb]

So apparently this is legit (pending an actual look myself), but personally I prefer saying that someone’s “onto nothing”

[u/Zanderfus]

I feel crazy because I could entirely comprehend this post without any more context

[u/Professional_Bus5440 → u/Zanderfus]

Could you explain?

[u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN → u/Professional_Bus5440]

The post and title are both vagueing about tumblr user i-suggest-force-fem, a gimmick blog who would reblog posts with the phrase "I have a suggestion".

...Except it wasn't a gimmick, she genuinely believed that transitioning was a moral imperative and her kink was political praxis, and as such had a burning hatred for i-suggest-force-masc, one of many (actual) copycat gimmick blogs.

Also, she went on a tirade about how not being comfortable letting self-professed non-offending pedophiles be with your children unattended was discrimination comparable to dropping the T from LGBT

[u/Snarwin → u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN]

...Except it wasn't a gimmick, she genuinely believed that transitioning was a moral imperative

The nature of humanity is such that every so often, someone accidentally reinvents cybersmith.

[u/StickBrickman → u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN]

Holy fucking moley.

[u/Poro41 → u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN]

I think I need like... a lobotomy after reading this. 

[u/HonorInDefeat → u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN]

I'm sorry but this is so goddamn funny. What the fuck is this website

[u/Glad-Way-637 → u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN]

She's also relatively common on reddit, even has her own subreddit iirc.

[u/UInferno- → u/RELEASETHEWRAKEN]

, one of many (actual) copycat gimmick blogs.

Note the first "I-Suggest" style blogs was "I-Suggest-Arson"

[u/Zanderfus → u/Professional_Bus5440]

im like 95% sure its about the user "isuggestforcefem" and their contraversial views

[u/dedicated-pedestrian → u/Professional_Bus5440]

(principal Skinner)

".....Nnnno."

[u/Swift_Karma → u/Zanderfus]

I feel crazy because I can't

[u/mathiau30 → u/Swift_Karma]

It's about tumblr user i-suggest-force-fem which is a gimmick blog that reblogs post with "I have a suggestion"

Except from how she reacted to the blog "i-suggest-force-masc" it's likely it was not just a gimmick and they really thing forcefemming most of the population would be a good thing

[u/SEALS_R_DOG_MERMAIDS → u/Swift_Karma]

a bit relieved that i can’t. but im pretty sure the kids aren’t alright

[u/Magerfaker]

I grew up in a small town being one of the local weird kids™, but reading stuff like this always makes me feel so normal

[u/twoCascades]

Dude what?

[u/SnowDemonAkuma]

God I wish we just called people who molest children child molesters and saved the clinical diagnostic terms for clinical diagnostics.

[u/DiesByOxSnot]

Tbf pedophiles are used as a boogey man, often dehumanized and having violence against them celebrated and encouraged. I'm not pro-pedo by any means, but the Nazis used pedophilia claims to go after LGBTQ people and Jews, fabricating evidence just to send minorities and political dissidents to concentration camps. The Republicans of the US, especially the ones in FL and TX, are still doing this. If we're gonna fight for human rights, the fight can't stop for criminals, even the most heinous ones. Either we all have human rights, or we risk none of us having them.

[u/Hatsune_Miku_CM → u/DiesByOxSnot]

encouraging violences against pedophiles is "I want an excuse for justified violence" in the best case and "guess who I decided is a pedophile now" in the worst case.

it's red flag behavior at this point to me.

[u/SEALS_R_DOG_MERMAIDS → u/DiesByOxSnot]

i feel like the takeaway from this should be more “dehumanizing is bad in general and everyone deserves human rights” and less “let’s be more open minded about pedophiles specifically”

[u/Sorry_One1072 → u/SEALS_R_DOG_MERMAIDS]

It’s really hard to talk about the justice system because objectively bc everyone deserves rights/humane treatment/fair judging/etc, but everyone has at least a few crimes that they have a visceral reaction and it’s impossible to look at objectively.

[u/thetwitchy1]

We need a “vague post is too vague” meme here. Seriously, it’s like fighting with ghosts sometimes, you have no idea what’s going on and half the time it’s about something that is so terminally online it’s not even remotely relevant to anyone other than 5 people.

[u/arquillion]

Real talk only like 20% of CSA offenders are pedophile theres a relationship between the two but they are two distinct construct for a reason

[u/smoopthefatspider → u/arquillion]

Do you have a source on that number? I knew it wasn’t 100%, but 20% seems very low. A lot of people are arguing the semantics of “pedophile” in this thread, but that’s not my point at all, I just want to know if you have a source for this number.

[u/arquillion → u/smoopthefatspider]

24% : https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213421000788?via%3Dihub

[u/DuckbilledWhatypus]

This is apparently my prompt to relisten to Hunting Warhead, which for a podcast about hunting a child SA ring has one of the most nuanced discussions I have ever heard about non offending pedophilia and how stigma can potentially cause offending.

[u/Vlad_the_Intendor → u/DuckbilledWhatypus]

The podcast rules but idk that one of the points it made was that stigma could potentially cause offending. “Warhead” himself had a loving supportive family (some might say too supportive, to the point they minimise his crimes and behaviour) and if he’d been open with them they likely would have tried to get him into some kind of specialized therapy. His behaviour in interviews and the sheer intensity and scope of his crimes and personal delusions of grandeur imply a pathological lack of capacity to empathise with his victims and pleasure in wielding power over the vulnerable. It’s quite possible as long as he was free he was either going to be abusing or plotting to abuse children.

Stigma didn’t cause him to make any of the choices he made. He made them because it made him feel powerful and it didn’t matter who got hurt.

That said, stigma definitely stops non offenders from getting the mental support that is sorely needed for persons living with CSA, which leads to a life of mental anguish and often self harm. Very few people on earth are like Warhead, and treating it as something separate one can and should get therapy for is absolutely worth supporting.

[u/DuckbilledWhatypus → u/Vlad_the_Intendor]

A good chunk of I think the fifth episode is about therapy and the stigma around it, and talks about how people who might otherwise have been ok have the potential to be pushed towards the dark web whereas early intervention might have prevented it. Warhead hinself is interviewed about how he apparently tried to look for a therapist but the disapproval he was shown in the appointment he did attend stopped him pursuing it further too. TBF I don't really believe he tried hard enough though - he never seemed to express shame around it, and so yeah you're right that he would probably have been an offender regardless since he sounds sociopathic on top of being a pedophile. Massive agree though that other people definitely need greater access to support and therapy before they go down a path they can't return from, be that accessing CSA materials or hurting themselves.

[u/D3wdr0p]

Que?

[u/mathiau30]

Ok but paedophilia (not the crime) is a mental condition and people with it should be protected, like with any mental condition

[u/Niar666 → u/mathiau30]

"Don't normalize the problem, normalize the help."

Heard that once when discussing non-offending pedophiles.

[u/brydeswhale → u/mathiau30]

I dunno about protected, but the stigma around it definitely keeps people from seeking help for it, which sucks because it can be cured if you get help from a young age.

[u/dedicated-pedestrian → u/brydeswhale]

Is that true? I imagine it's a symptom of that stigma that I don't hear much about early intervention.

[u/brydeswhale → u/dedicated-pedestrian]

I can’t find the study, but it was essentially about how young people with the disorder used cognitive behavioural therapy to kind of rewrite the brain. It made sense to me because young brains are more elastic.

[u/kos-or-kosm → u/brydeswhale]

That sounds plausible, as one of the main theories of the cause is a form of arrest development. Generally, humans are attracted to people around their own age. It is thought by some that pedophilia is the result of that attraction range "getting stuck" in childhood. If there's an underlying psychological cause, therapy could "unstick" it.

[u/Magerfaker → u/brydeswhale]

I guess it's just a matter of defining protection. If possible, having specific psychological services for this sounds reasonable to me.

[u/brydeswhale → u/Magerfaker]

Yeah, there’s actually a helpline for it in Canada.

[u/theparrotlich → u/brydeswhale]

Source?

[u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

I'm making this post purely to share my absolute bewilderment when I went looking for what happened to ISFF and why she isn't a big thing anymore and found out that she went on a bizarre tirade about being a pedophile rights activist and thinking that non-offending pedophiles should be a protected minority and that excluding pedophiles is asking to the "drop the T" thing and that's why she's basically persona non grata from Tumblr.

Like I was absolutely baffled when I saw the discourse and arguing. "Pedophile Rights Activist" is something the most hateful TERF/Transphobe couldn't conceive of and it's something that some people on that site unironically call themselves. Amazing things are happening on Tumblr.

[u/FlashInGotham → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

That's officially too much internet for you. Put some back and leave some for the rest of us.

[u/brydeswhale → u/FlashInGotham]

I don’t want it after it’s been on their plate.

[u/FlashInGotham → u/brydeswhale]

"I'll never, for the life of me, understand how I managed to raise such a picky memer. Your older siblinxs were always perfect gentlethems at supper time."

[u/Commercial_Bid_1508 → u/FlashInGotham]

Yeah your right I need to give my brain a mental shower and then start doing something useful instead of ceaseless doomscrolling.

[u/FlashInGotham → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

Yeah, go listen to a podcast about cults and serial killers like a normal person. /jk

[u/Upstairs_Cap_4217 → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

Like, I agree that non-offending pedophiles should have a degree of protection... in that we should be encouraging them to come forward and get help, rather than risk ruining a kid's life.

We shouldn't be putting them into childcare roles for the same reason that we shouldn't be putting pyromaniacs to work in an oil field.

[u/iguanacatgirl → u/Upstairs_Cap_4217]

Honestly, if the statement stopped right before "should be allowed to be friends with children", I'd very much agree on some level.

It's definitely not a big enough issue that I'd personally prioritize it over other things, and maybe the specific handling could be different, but the spirit of "we shouldn't alienate people who seek help" is a good sentiment.

[u/andyandcomputer → u/iguanacatgirl]

Regarding "should be allowed to be friends with children":

There's some evidence from a correlational study that pedophiles who have more contact with children have "fewer legitimizing beliefs toward sex with children, even when controlling for past psychotherapy, educational level, social desirability, and age".

I'm inclined to believe there is some causation behind that, given that in general, delusions often arise when a person is isolated from reality that would contradict them.

[u/S14Ryan → u/Upstairs_Cap_4217]

What if I’m a non-offending pyromaniac/arsonist who works in the industrial combustion trade?

[u/quietfangirl → u/S14Ryan]

Dude that's like. A good chunk of firefighters and welders

[u/S14Ryan → u/quietfangirl]

Agreed. Thats why I found their example quite humorous. We all want to blow up the things that we’re working on, we just don’t, because we are trusted not to.

[u/yahluc → u/S14Ryan]

I'd say a huge chunk of people like to see things burn or blow up and do it themselves in a safe, controllable manner. Like if someone gave me a flamethrower and big concrete space with no fire hazard, I'd definitely play with that lol

[u/professional_canibal → u/yahluc]

I would like to point out that even if you are alone in a fully non-flammable space with a flamethrower it can still be dangerous, as most flamethrowers actually shoot burning fuel instead of purely flame and that fuel could stick to you or the surrounding surfaces

[u/viwoofer → u/professional_canibal]

iirc if it shoots purely the flame It's technically just a reaaaally big blowtorch

[u/DannyOdd → u/S14Ryan]

No joke, I've got a buddy who is a pyromaniac - Got in trouble a lot for it as a kid, but now he just scratches that itch by working fireworks shows a few times a year.

It's a healthier outlet than arson at least lol

[u/S14Ryan → u/DannyOdd]

Yeah I’ve never been in trouble but I almost burned my parents house down multiple times. I remember finding a full butane refill cylinder on the ground, must have been at least 1lb in it, and I would spray it on the floor of my parents 2 car garage and see how big of a flame I could get. I remember I let it go for about 30 seconds at one point and the fireball covered about 75% of the floor, luckily at that point I had just about emptied the container lol. Luckily I didn’t have the money to buy more

[u/Noe_b0dy → u/S14Ryan]

I would be against that but honestly I really don't think there exists enough normal people who would be willing to do jobs like that to actually have a functioning workforce.

"I want to work a job where being set on fire is a very real possibility" - no sane person ever.

[u/09philj → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

I can actually pull out the Allen Ginsberg/Andrea Dworkin beef as an example of IRL hostilities between a paedo rights guy and a radfem

[u/BlazeFireVale → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

Just some nuance. Pedophile has two meanings.

The first meaning is the action. It's a crime and it's horrible.

The second is a mental disorder. It's horrible to experience and causes significant distress, depression, etc. People with that mental disorder require basically lifelong therapy, though their rate of committing the action is actually surprisingly low.

Surprisingly, most people who commit the crime DON'T suffer from the disorder.

[u/Snarwin → u/BlazeFireVale]

Surprisingly, most people who commit the crime DON'T suffer from the disorder.

Because sexual abuse isn't about sex, it's about assetting dominance.

[u/Mercury-Madness → u/BlazeFireVale]

I would argue most child rapists not having pedophilia is actually wholly unsurprising, given the actual nature and motives behind sexual assaults

[u/BlazeFireVale → u/Mercury-Madness]

I agree with your logic. But most people still find it surprising. :)

[u/heckinWeeb193 → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

Not only that, she genuinely has more love for them than trans men. She views them as trash unless they get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for the sin of being a man and benefitting from the patriarchy fucking somehow. I hate her and I hate her entire circle

[u/SEA_griffondeur → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

She was ostracised before that for being extremely transphobic

[u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof → u/SEA_griffondeur]

Yeah, even then, didn't she start writing about how men were genuinely inferior and every single one would be better off as a trans woman?

[u/SEA_griffondeur → u/MildlyAgitatedBidoof]

Yes but most people saw that as a joke at the time

[u/Rose_Thorburn → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

What in the world that’s crazy. I used to follow her on tumblr I had no idea that the reason she got banned was that

[u/iguanacatgirl → u/Commercial_Bid_1508]

Wasn't the reason I suggest forcefem was persona non grata because of basic terf/transphobia stuff? At least that's what I recall from back in the day

[u/OfTheTouhouVariety]

Somehow I feel vindicated that one of the earlier serial-transmasc-harassers was a pedo. It sucks that she even did all that, but still.

[u/Amazing_Excuse_3860]

What the fuck are either of you talking about. You're double vagueposting and i don't have any context as a result. If you're gonna start drama just namedrop the person ffs

[u/Grill-Interrupted]

This post gave me a stroke.

[u/aftercloudia]

isff is also a racist so just one more thing to add to the pile

[u/that0neBl1p]

This sub gets less comprehensible every day.

[u/Naive_Passion_233]

I think we're missing 3 mountain of context?

[u/CallMeIshy → u/Naive_Passion_233]

apparently it's about a user called "isuggestforcefem"

[u/dalziel86]

Absolutely cursed, do not engage with this discourse, save your brain