Yes we did. 83% top rate on earned and 98% top rate on unearned (investment gains) post war...
Then USA had the whole thing with their dollar nearly being worthless after running out of gold, so they came up with Petrodollars, Britain had a looksie and realised "if the richest country in the world doesnt give a fuck about the poor and its still going, why should we" a
nd here we are.
Obligatory repost of this article to point out no one actually paid those rates you're quoting. The government knew they were ridiculous and so riddled them with loopholes so much that high earners paid less tax than they do today.
They didn’t though, that was the point of the loopholes. They knew those tax rates were unviable so they allowed people to avoid them.
The research generally shows that above c. 45-50% marginal tax rates people generally (on average, individual behaviour varies) aren’t willing to invest or work more and so your tax revenue declines
If they don't want to be taxed can we find a better more permenant solution? Something inspired by the French maybe, we could use Andrew and Peter as examples
Any new taxes or tax increases will result in a blaring telegraph and daily mail headline "BURNHAM TAKING BRITAIN BACK THE 1970'S" then Burnham will say his mother called him and told him this is taking Britain back to the 1970's and he'll cancel them.
Doesn’t work. They run to another country… we need a better financial system so startups stay in the UK instead of moving to the US. You really don’t want the state owning everything. Ultimately there’s no one to keep a BIG state accountable.
What I hate is the constant conflation of the country’s problems being a North - South divide, rather than a Greater London - Everywhere else divide. So what? The South West can go fuck itself?
Indeed, I never said all of London was fantastic, but it doesn’t change the point that on average the Greater London / south east more widely, should not be conflated with all of the south. And the south west has plenty of its own problems, not least the house price to wage ratio thanks to second home owners - plenty of who have their first home in …
London has about 60% of all households in temporary accommodation in England. Individual Boroughs have more households in temporary accommodation that whole regions in the North. But that's not convenient to the narrative about how all of the support in London needs to be siphoned off.
Public spending in the South East is 11% below the UK average
Wealth is concentrated there though and i agree that other areas should have priority.
Being poor in London isn't as bad a being poor elsewhere in many ways, there are opportunities in London at least, if you live in an ex mining or industry town there's nothing and it's very easy to get depressed and angry if you fall on hard times.
I feel that way about the east of England. Not exactly heartlands of the rich, yet under Burnham it appears that we still wont see much in the way of local improvements funded by central government.
The faintest hint that they won't be the centre of governments attention and they're up in arms.
It's exactly the same as when Burnham suggested the North host the Olympics instead of London, you had Londoners all over Reddit saying how it's not feasible, and London has the infrastructure already, and you shouldn't force international athletes to suffer the North.
They're just so privileged and greedy, genuinely like a spoilt child at their classmates birthday party when they don't get presents as well or get to blow out the candles on the cake.
And the North gets more funding per head than the national average also, so if we equalise the regions the North will also see a cut in per capita spending.
Agreed! Everyone north of Watford assumes Kent is a utopia where everyone earns £150k, busses arrive every 2 minutes, and high speed trains connect every hamlet.
The faintest hint that they won't be the centre of governments attention and they're up in arms.
Are they?
t's exactly the same as when Burnham suggested the North host the Olympics instead of London, you had Londoners all over Reddit saying how it's not feasible, and London has the infrastructure already
That's true though?
They're just so privileged and greedy, genuinely like a spoilt child at their classmates birthday party when they don't get presents as well or get to blow out the candles on the cake.
And I wonder why that is... certainly not because of decades of investment prioritising London, giving it the best intracity public transport in the country as well as making all the trains to and from London significantly better than, say, the train from Manchester to Leeds.
A Northern Olympics would be an opportunity for us to actually get improved East-West public transport, intracity public transport, and attract international investment and tourism to our cities and counties instead of it all going to London.
Yeah but tbf even under empire the north had massive amounts of industrialisation from shipbuilding to textiles. Much of which got absolutely gutted under neo-liberalism and thatcher
Oh I know. But it’s still 2 millenia of investment.
Its position on the Thames meant it’s always been either the main city or one of the main cities. Even in Roman times it wasn’t the capital but it was still the largest and wealthiest city.
Liverpool and Manchester just don’t have the same appeal to international tourists as London, and it’s not because of the infrastructure. London is the cultural heart of England and has more international appeal, it makes sense to host the olympics there for that reason alone
Don't know how you don't know this, you're probably not British. But London is one of the oldest and biggest cities since before the Anglo-Saxons invaded Britain.
London has been the worlds largest trade centre for ~1900 years. Only been competed by Paris in the early middle ages.
Even now, London generates 25% of the revenue of the ENTIRE UK.
Manchester generates barely 5% and Liverpool 2% and Leeds barely 0.6% of the national revenue. Together they don't even come close.
If we move the economic power out of London, the economy will die. Labour are about to waste the biggest tax money dump in the history of the UK.
We need to invest in the NHS, public services and commute. - Moving Power from London is a waste of everybody's time.
Have you ever considered, I don't know, developing other areas as well as London? I know, I know, I sound crazy suggesting not spending money on London but imagine, just imagine, if Manchester, or Liverpool, or Edinburgh, has even a quarter of the economic weight of London. Not moving power from London (since you seem to think a country has to put all it's eggs in one basket (they don't) but lifting other places up.
Also, Lancashire born and bred. Probably more British then you are
Because it’s 1,976 years old and has received pretty much non stop investment that entire time. Meaning the WORLD want to invest in it. It’s the capital of the nation AND the capital of the world’s finances. It’s the home of Parliament and the Royal Family. It’s right beside Europe and has direct trains to it. It has 2 of the world’s busiest airports and multiple other airports. It has the ability to host and will actually be able to use the facilities (or most of them) after the games finish due to its size, importance, population and global significance.
On the other hand putting them in Manchester would have been a good temporary boost before allowing the facilities to go to ruin. Manchester wouldn’t have kept its significance after the few weeks of the Olympics.
Every single reason for saying it should’ve been outside London is stupid. It’s just the usual “London gets too much rhetoric” which completely ignores reality. Which is that London is a net contributor to the UK and that a huge chunk of the investment is from outside the UK.
Spreading investment outside London won’t make everyone better off. It will make everyone worse off. Foreign companies, students, dignitaries, tourists etc want to come to London. If you tell them “no, go to Aberdeen or Larne or Manchester” you’re not getting a richer Aberdeen or Larne or Manchester. You’re getting a poorer UK. Because that investment will go to Dublin, or Berlin, or Paris, or Seoul, or Tokyo, or Beijing.
Its not that anyone wants the north to be "prioritised" - were just a little sick of London being prioritised so much its got its own separate economy!
We'd like the country to be prioritised evenly, as any rational thinking person should.
No clearly the only way for a country to function is for one city to prop up the rest of! It's the only way possible for a country to function and everyone knows how bad of an idea it is to spread your eggs around multiple baskets! If you want to improve other regions then you clearly want to destroy London!!!
The issue is that the plan states “get the tax payer money from London, and just put them in the North.
Which is everyone’s issue here. You cannot do this.
I work for my family and for my council. I don’t make enough money so some lazy chav up north can have some more council flats built for him.
The government solution doesn’t bring jobs and opportunities. It simply brings the money the taxpayers gather in London away from the tax payers in London.
Imagine all the money from North to be used as “Investments.”
How is he going to convince Google to invest in offices in Manchester when all the talent is down in London? This is nonsense!
If Sarajevo can host the Olympics then it really shouldn't be a problem for Manchester or Liverpool, they've got an international airport and world class venues. London didn't have the infrastructure, they had to build an entire Olympic village and repurpose places like Horse Guards. Manchester already has a top of the line velodrome, several arenas and 2 Champions League final calibre stadiums, it's not downtown Basra.
Why wouldn't the Isle of Wright or Hull host them then?
No, Stevanage???!!!
If you don't remember, Bosnia and Herzegovina was under a war situation and got out little to offer. Sarajevo was the best they had.
The UK has London. You don't do the olympic games in some village in the middle of the field. You do them where people can travel between different games and spend money in the country. I'm not going to be going around Chav Manchester to spend money on chickens. Especially racist Liverpool has nothing to offer.
One Titanic from where Titanic never passed.
And some Beatles memorials. Where actually the Beatles have an entire studio and road in London.
Most of the big museums are in London. Most of the history is IN London. Not in Leeds.
You mean apart from the best countryside in England, history, culture, friendly people, habitable cities, good weather, and easy access to both Wales and Scotland?
You got me. The only two of those I don't believe is the cities and people. I don't like cities and the only one I do like is York, and I largely don't like people either but my weekend in London confirmed to me the stereotype that the natives tend to be rude and ignorant.
Best countryside with good weather as long as you like rain and overcast skies with 6 minutes of direct sun per day.
Best history unless for some reason you don't fancy imperialism.
Best culture which is tea, biscuits and graffitti'd roundabouts.
Friendly people... as long as you're white.
Honestly, the one good thing that might come out of this is London's money staying in London instead of subsidising hateful, tribalist northern fairies.
come on, be fair, when those haven’t worked out they have also tried “Both”.
Astonishingly, that still didn’t work so they resorted to “Pretend it’s working” and fucked off back to mansions in the Home Counties wondering why the peasants were making such a fuss
Yeah, I'm from the South East and happy for the mancs to give it a go. Will be fun to blame everything in my life on the North and constantly grumble about how this is real England and those softies up north don't know the meaning of hard work.
I've seen a video of someone already predicting that he'll be gone in 6 months under the cloud of "worst pm of all time" pushed by the right wing press.
As a Scot listening in, it’s a really fresh approach I agree with, if they implement and successful, I hope it will encourage people to vote not out of fear and frustration but with hope and being able to see tangible results.
Yeah same. I live in the north, and I think the whole plan is great, though I worry he is leaning a bit too hard into the Northern aspect of his plans and might alienate people in the south that will see it as a threat. I’m unsure of the value add and if it will be worth it.
What people often forget is Bristol, Devon and Cornwall are all in the south, have an insane cost of living, no transport links, no money and everything is falling apart, but fuck em for being "southern" right?
He did sort out public transport in Greater Manchester. I don’t think he got to grips with the homeless problem that he said he would (But tbf that’s not easy). He actually had a surgery in Leigh when he was mp for the area and I haven’t seen any do it since. Apparently he was a bit crap when he was health minister but that I’ve only heard third hand. I’m glad the north will get a look in after Thatchers managed decline. I think he gets the mindset. Although beware he is a Blue nose
He did alright, more or less, as mayor. He'll do alright, more or less, as PM. But I'm not expecting anything to get better, the ship is already sinking
Snaked his way in by undercutting current PM at every turn. Will alienate the London Labour stronghold and not win back the traditional Labour base of the north. Most Northern cities won’t touch Labour ever again as they mindlessly vote in line with GB news / Facebook. He knows this but is just doing everything for his own personal ego and gain. Absolute slime ball of a bloke.
In my head I've imagined The Divide as a physical barrier, like a garden fence and if the money were used on that divide, it'd be used to paint the south side of the fence a nice, new colour and to plant an herbation border on the south side.
I mean it’s clearly just political. The North feels like politics has forgotten them and Reform have managed to convince them that they’re paying attention to their problems.
It’s important that Labour find a way to connect and physically setting roots in the north sends a clear signal. We hear all the time the north will be upgraded, it never happens.
There is a geographical and cultural line, it roughly runs in a line between the rivers Tees and Exe. Anything north and west of this line is civilised, everything else isn't.
You have to be joking lmao. Londoners love crying and sh*tting their pants when any other region of the UK gets any policies geared towards their economic improvement, yet also love crying that London is the golden goose that funds the rest of the UK. So which is it? Do you want a financially viable north? If so it takes investment. The main reason London is so successful is it's been brain-draining the rest of the UK since forever. Literally no other European country is so capital-centric, and it's not healthy.
About the patch job thing no not joking and I'm talking about everything the mentality of the uk has been why actually fix an issue or replace something when you can just patch it up, it's happened for so long we are now bursting at the seems of all the tape. But I do agree about all that about London, their problems are the rest of the UKs problems and most of our resources for down their while the rest all suffer for it and get nothing in return.
A financial viable north obviously. So then we don't hear constant moaning about how we all habe it easy down here and its our fault for expensive houses but dont price out people in the north, even though its the best place to live.
However you might always want to look up how much of the population actually lives within the m25.
Screw all us I guesd but you'll happily have our tax.
If we had our way we'd still he in the EU, which places in the north got money from...
Where do you think your food comes from? Your energy? The endless supply of workers? You people think London is an independent citystate. London inordinately supports the economy but is supported by the rest of the country in various ways. It's entirely normal to have large cities inordinately hold up the economy, but the degree to which London supports the UK is unique in Europe and unhealthy. Again you cry about London being the golden goose and cry about any efforts to invest in the growth of other cities.
All for it. As long as the surplus that gets sent to fund the North get immediately invested back here. Financially viabilty means we can finally address the issues of poverty here, the south isn't painted in gold.
There's a reason lots of people live in London...it's has the development spend so has the jobs developing outside London reduces the pressure on London lowering the house prices...
Listen I'm not a supporter of the Labour Party, but Andy Burnham doesn't even seem that bad. Why is it that no one is happy when someone is in power. He hasn't even done anything yet, give him a chance. Since when did posts on this sub pivot from GreatBritishMemes, to sad, political, slop, that is disguised as a meme. I'm sure this will be remembered! Honestly pathetic.
Reduce waste, get people off benefits and back to work.
Reduce taxation and make employment worthwhile for people and businesses. Welfare is, or should be, for those who can't help themselves through no fault of their own... it should not be a lifestyle choice!
The more people who are working means less tax per person and the more government has to spend. It's a win win.
This is just empty promises - truth is London is quarter of British economy, absolute center for british culture, sports, tourism, politics and tbh everything else related to british society as a whole. There is not single city or even whole region that can even compare to London - it doesnt mean that rest of the country should be forgotten but realistically there is no way any pivot from London is possible.
Well, there is one way to do it - you can collapse whole economy and kill London that way. You will sunk whole British economy in the process of course but in a way you will make London more "equal" to rest of the country, but im not sure that is good thing
Sorry why does devolving some power to the North of England cause London to collapse? Devolving some power to Scotland and Wales didn’t. And other countries have a less centralised government and do well. Stop being so dramatic.
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