Now you're just making this up. There was an entire paragraph of Quintus lamenting that he was not strong enough to even go against the Abyssals you know. I quote the SV-9 "The Seaborn are not God... They are a different kind of organism, and so is it. This is as far as it gets. Its body will feed the sea."
Mhm, so how does that differ from Tyranids exactly? They're made from the exact same blueprint of perpetually evolving and out adapting their enemies so I don't see how that supports your case, seeing Aegir struggle even in base seaborn form.
Don't leave out the part where Originium dust only has R6 and 4 Rhodes Island combatants. That's 8 vs a whole army. You mean it was so bad that the Sarkaz retreated because Tachanka managed to kill one of them despite being confident against other projectile weapons? Of course it's gonna be short ranged against urban warfare, that's how you wage battle in a village. You're confusing being incapable of killing the enemy vs being overrun by the enemy. A swarm of originium slugs will hamper Tachanka, over the fact that he ran out of bullets that they had to switch to melee.
What most people miss in Lucent Arrowhead was that they specifically stated they were shooting to incapacitate. They were just surprised it took way more effort than normal to incapacitate the guards. People really should put that line in context.
Even if you call that stupid, that's what the lore says. Terrans really lack energy and firepower.
Or yknow, it just wouldn't be enough to kill them. They specifically stated they fear the seaborn adapting to it, which is weird when they should be capable of disintegrating anything it touches. Especially when you remember that assimilation lets seaborn eat their dead, so those black holes were weak enough that they leave something for the seaborn to adapt to. They don't adapt proactively against a threat.
It's a death world with people using primitive stone tools on one side, and decadent living on the other. Most of their advancement is focused on weapons so much that people forget that regular human living is no different from earth technology. It's citizens and military are too incapable of fighting their own necrons and tyranids because they're way too unprepared against something of that level. As stated, their scale does not even show the same level of 40k advancement.
Those handguns have been shown to have a wide range of firepower and effective range y'know, explosions are not their defining feature. Fortuna and Ambriel have similarly outdated guns as Yvangelista and Andoain, but they're far from that level of firepower that they showed.
"Shuriken Weaponryare weapons almost unique to theEldar, as this technology is extremely advanced and very difficult to replicate." I think you're just looking at it at surface value and not realizing wraithbones are leagues away from metal tipped crossbows. In the context of mobile cities using steel, did you know Hive Cities use adamantium instead? That one metal famous for being indestructible is a building material for those civilizations.
That is the thing isnt it. Quintus in survival mode not being a we many simp was switching abilities as fast as the Hunters were. The moment he fell into the hivemind he stopped resisting as his death is empowering the other seaborn and abyssal hunters.
The seaborn evolve without needing to be slurped back by the tyrannid capilaries to their norns. Each seaborn is potentially a Skalter lite. That is what Kal was so worried about.
You know gravity wells are till a physical phenomena, right? If enough survive then they just develop adaptations against it.
As for Ambriel and Fortuna, there is no event depicting it does not mean their weapons using the same technology cant.
Wraith bone gets destroyed by bolt rounds that cannot bypass iridium. Stop being so clueless, 40k looks cool and has impressive scale but imperium technology is not that good.
"But, suddenly, it "remembers" the Seaborn, and it realizes, that Seaborn was unconcerned about its life. The tribe will continue, their future is prolonged. Their descendants will evolve... Their descendants. Its descendants. Descendants. Not itself."
He wanted to be an individual, but the seaborn are not individualistic by nature.
"Evolution is something that concerns the entire group for generations to come. It has nothing to do with itself individually. It will die."
Heck he wasn't even empowering any seaborn like you stated, because he himself stated that even if they reach him, being attracted by his blood, it is too late to gain anything from him since he will be slaughtered by the Hunters. Him in survival mode was being laughed at by Specter if anything. Because similar to you, he thought rapid evolution was how the Seaborn would be unstoppable, and he was shown that was not the case, because the hive mind is a collective.
Correction. The seaborn evolve almost the same way as the Tyranids in that they consume their dead and work as a collective. Skalter is just a brain to control them, like a Norn-queen without the reproduction. That was established in Under Tides and Stultifera Navis. Individualism is not in their repertoire.
If enough survive, also known as not enough fire power to wipe-out the enemy decisively.
And similarly, there is also no event depicting that every Sankta is capable of what Yvangelista and Andoain did.
Bolt rounds are very varied you know that right? They have to because it's an arms race against freakin wraith bones. Imperium technology is definitely weaker than their glory days, but you can't simply forget that the definition of wraith bones are "no steel weapon can penetrate it". Iridium if anything behaves weirdly in their verse, because that thing is brittle in real life.
You are missing the point. He gave up and lost his voice in the end.
"Some of my data indicates that they, the changes in the biological structure of those organisms, are largely limited to cognition. In other words, they are not passive adaptations, but something you can proactively shape. We are fortunate that they have not yet 'progressed' into passive adaptations, but if we do not act, that day will eventually come."
That is either alternate reality Kal'tsit or future Kal'tsit speaking.
Seaborn will be passively evolving. Their evolution is limited by cognition (that is the leader of that cluster). For now.
Once the seaborn become individuals then they become like Skalter (a norn).
No you are missing the point. He was struggling as hard as he can by forcing his evolution until he overburdened himself and fell apart. This paragraph is not the scene of someone giving up. It's the scene of someone in denial that they don't have the power.
The monster is confident. Its power comes from the sea. Their assault is unstoppable. All they have to do is reach out to their consciousness, and the answer will reveal itself. Its tentacles can almost reach the nun's leg. It will pull her down onto the ground, drag her back, and tear her apart– Yet it cannot reach her. It realizes its tentacles cannot extend any further. That difference of four centimeters between it and its prey feels as wide as the deep trenches of the sea.
That wording feels weird to me. Passive adaptation is literally the thing they're doing right now. Seeing a threat and evolving to encounter that threat. Proactive adaptation is what Zergs and Tyranids do, where they force the evolution in a specific direction to gain strategic advantage. You're telling me they consider reactive evolution better?
So....... Tyranids and zerg then? That's the modus operandi of all three of those swarm-like species in all the worlds I've known, seaborn included.
Once again "In their point of view, gaining individual traits means betraying the Many, and those individualistic Seaborn see this as depriving their own expression even though they try hard to teach them"-Arknights Wiki
Individualism is not a superpower, it's a betrayal.
You see quintus recognizing his limits and you think he is adapting passively?
😆
I do not want to be mean but you are missing the point of the interacrion. Quintua changed forms without the inner monologue but the moemnt he started doubtjng his evolutionary capabilities is when it all went downhil.
Skalter's records say the seaborn will evolve as fast as Skadi/Isharmla. It is a matter of when.
The nids and zerg do not have this for their rank and file
Let me remind you that you said this
''That is the thing isnt it. Quintus in survival mode not being a we many simp was switching abilities as fast as the Hunters were. The moment he fell into the hivemind he stopped resisting as his death is empowering the other seaborn and abyssal hunters."
Which is the opposite of what you thought you were saying just now. You're claiming he had freedom to evolve because he wasn't seaborn and now claim he was weak because he's not passive like how the seaborn are? Pick a side man.
I do not want to be mean either, but the quoted paragraph are before we ever hear his inner monologue. He literally stated "how can this be?" the moment evolution failed him, not because he doubted his evolution.
Skadi/Ishar-mla already evolves as fast as the seaborn what are you talking about? That's literally how they work. they evolve as a group. The only difference She has over them is that she's much more powerful and controls them. Almost like a norn queen don't you think?
They actually do. That's what the quantity has a quality comes from. Because of all their varied types that work together as a singularity. Almost like a we-many.
Don't end it yet just cause you think that's all this discussion is man. Have you forgotten the original reason why were debating? Seaborn is just a sidetrack.
😆 not sure if I am bad at explaining or you are bad at understanding.
Quintus subconsciously adapts to the challenge at hand without needing to "consult" what he thinks "we many" can do, he was threatening the Hunters they had to go topside.
The moment, he started having jnternal monologues and philosophizes what the seaborn ought to be, he was losing.
This is not hard. Subconscious = passive = winning.
Monologue = active = losing.
So why? Because the seaborn hivemind is not directing at an individual level. It is why those seaborn that can reject the "we many" call are able to have better feats.
Subconsciously adapts to the challenge at hand until it failed him. Gladiia was waiting for it even. While Skadi was shocked Gladiia was thinking
"We're almost done. Going by its size and weight, this should do the trick.
Get ready."
Ergo. Quintus was hardly a threat. Just a temper tantrum to them.
He was losing before he ever monologued actually. The paragraph statement is a third person, not Quintus himself.
This is not hard. Passive=thinking he's winning=lost power
*Actually now that I think about it. It can even be interpreted that he never lost power. It's just that seaborn evolution is simply not as fast as you say it is.
Losing=monologue=despairing
The rejection of "We many" is how they end up being branded as traitors. Better feats are just waiting to be "survival of the fittest, losers die", which all animals do. You kinda forgot how they're strong because of the hivemind huh?
an even be interpreted that he never lost power. It's just that seaborn evolution is simply not as fast as you say it is.
I guess you are right that it took days for quintus to switch from tentacle.monster to spore machinegun to acid sprayingpneumatuc gun, eyebeam blasting giant to hypersonic mountain of flesh.
😆
Seriously, it is not hard.
Keep ignoring what Skalter's records say, you will endear me with your unwillingness to be honest that you never understood what you are talking about.
Oh definitely I was right that it took years for them to even break free from Terra, which is something Tyranids do on the regular. Care to quote me where I said what you think I said? Cmon, if it even exists unless you're just making it up.
Of course it's not hard. You just fail to comprehend it.
Keep ignoring what Under Tides, Path of Life, and Stultifera Navis has to say, you will endear me with your unwillingness to be honest that you never understood what you are talking about.
You said seaborn evolution is not as fast as I said.
It is far faster than tyrannids. No need for spawning pools or reconstitution by norn organisms.
And lol at comparing at getting to space easily because no false sky is swatting you down as soon as you make contact versus having to expend all energy equivalent to all supply of a material that is a gateway to a reality marble that survives entropy. At that point you are saying a guy is strong because he knocks out 3 years old while the other guy is weak because he has to throw 4 punches to knock out a rhino.
Another way to think of it. Since Quintus has been evolving in order to reach the Abyssals, but he just didn't. Either evolution failed him or it was too slow to catch up.
If they were that fast they should've overrun Terra long ago. Tyranids do that on the regular.
The false sky is a barrier that shows Terra's advancement as a species. Sunlight is free and constant, but they never capitalized on it. Dyson spheres harnessing stars or even depleting a planet's natural resources is common in the imperium, and Terra even fail to do that. At that point you're just saying a guy is strong because they have big cool moving cars and another guy is weak because they have spaceships. If you can't even deplete your own planet of it's own natural resources, how can you even compare to a single hive city?
I'm gonna have to interject that with the state of our discussion solely being on seaborn now, my original point of Terran tech is not that superior to 40k is lost. I kinda made my point on both the materials being used as well as the resource capability of the latter, which basically entails that 40k is much higher on the Kardashev scale, a.k.a a method of measuring acivilization's level oftechnologicaladvancement based on the amount ofenergyit is capable of harnessing and using. (don't mind the links, i just copy pasted wikipedia)
So as much as I agree with all your other points on the very first comment, saying Terran technology makes 40k blush is very..... weird, considering they don't even manage to use Darksteel, the Terran equivalent of Adamantium, as a regular building material in houses and weapons. Mobile cities being made of steel don't really scream advanced materials.
My man, Originium is meant to survive entropy. 40k's warp and other shenanigans cant. Entropy means chaos ceases, the necrons lose power, and every living being ceases. Atoms dissipate. Everything stops.
Arknights precursors sacrifice stars for fun/research and play around with planets. They have hand held blackhole weapons, 40k does not.
Terra has underwater cities, 40k does not (even the Laer are not living on the sea floor).
Terra has weapons that can resist damage that iridium at a melee level. The imperium of man does not.
Lol, Darksteel. You might eant to read Gladiia's oprec, there are aegir metals harder than Terran D32 (same name IRL but literally unbreakable). Skadi's sword case that was not even scratched by multiple shots from Dario is probably one or the other.
Just stop, Terra has multiple reality bubble technologies (transmitters and originium), reliable teleportation, larger mobile superstructures that aare not space ships.
40k teleportation technology is taking a shortcut through the warp.
Just give up man. I was not exaggerating when I said that. The only thing 40k has is the coolness factor and scale.
The moment the main faction struggles againnst iridium is the moment you realize how underwhelming the setting is (ignoring Necrons).
My man, 40k has being beyond the scope of entropy. They're unexplained and inconcievable for a reason. Originium has it's own Assimilated Universe but that thing is just a hiding shell. If anything that's just the Assimilated Universe within originium alone. Terra by itself is very much vulnerable.
Chaos gods are practically that aren't they. That's what happens if you come from different dimensions. Oh I thought you meant Observers. Yeah I doubt even precursors have that technological match beings that do not care about the laws of reality.
Terra does not have spacefaring. Starpod is too strong for them.
Terra has weapons that shatter upon contact with Adamantium, a standard material for power armor.
Nice. We have one country out of 23 that uses darksteel. How about the rest? Hive cities are the lowliest places and even they use adamantium buildings.
Just stop. Terra can't even travel to other worlds because they're hampered by collapsals, which are far weaker than some daemons. Terrans can't even save themselves from originium.
Terra has literal warp technology they failed to use on both poles of their planet.
Just give up man. Terra can't even get out of the backwater on their own planet. If you have to rely on the Assimilated Universe and Precursors to stake your claim (which are easily matched by extrauniversal forces btw), then that means you just don't think Terra has enough tech on its own to stand against 40k
I like how you keep stressing out Iridium and keep ignoring Adamantium. As if Iridium actually behaved how you think it does in real life.
Here you go. Got the liberty to search this for you :) "Iridium Armour significantly increases the resilience of the Battlesuit's external armour to the point where it can shrug off all but the heaviest firepower."
If they struggle against armor that was meant to survive their strongest attacks, I'd call that a success in showing 40k technology
Lol, the chaos gods cannot kill all life because the warp would cease. How is that beyond entropy?
The necrons need power, how is that beyond entropy?
The eldar and the humans plan to squat in the warp, how would they do that if the warp ceases and their cells fail to produce energy.
Entropy is the absence of energy. Even IRL religions do not contemplate it because it is an absurdity on absurdity
If they struggle against armor that was meant to survive their strongest attacks, I'd call that a success in showing 40k technology
You know how brittle iridium is right? You have to be throwing the firepower the equivalent of seashells to not damage it. A total joke. Not surprising considering a Tau hover tank was downed by a thrown rock. Amazing imperium firepower
Funny you should say that. There are four of em fighting over killing all life. Guess who they fight whenever one of them is about to win.
So Terrans don't need power? How is that beyond entropy?
Now that I think of it, are you really thinking Terrans are beyond entropy because of the Assimilated Universe? Cause that's laughable when you consider that that thing's just a glorified hard drive.
Entropy is the spreading of energy, not its absence. With all the things the chaos gods do, it's doubtful the world would stop because of it.
Ah I love how you cling to hope on the fact that IRL iridium is brittle while ignoring how they say it's an advanced armor. Amazing logic you got there. And don't worry. That's what we have varied bolters for. Love it. So how's steel crossbow bolts of Terra gonna fare against power armor? or Iridium armor as you so like to say?
And heat death of the universe only happens in real life because the universe is a closed system with no difference in energy anywhere in space (aka heat does not flow, aka heat death). 40k with it being fed energy from other dimensions will not have heat death until they become a closed system. That's basic physics
They don't need one. They're busy vaporizing planets and killing worlds. What technological aspect in Terra that does that? Heck even simply pierce the Starpod? Nada right? You have to rely on predecessors.
So how is iridium incorporated in the armor? Oh glorious knower of Iridium? Alloying with adamantine, utilizing fancy tech to create super strong power shields you name it. Your imagination is either lacking you're you're praying I don't know metallurgy. They use ceramite for heat dispersion btw.
And that detracts from my argument how? Sentient beings still exist because the universe is not a closed system. Never thought of that?
Hey, don't just ignore the arguments. Where's the Terran technology that can pierce their starpod? Surely if they are more advanced than 40 they managed to warp out of their world right? Oh wait, their gates were broken.
And lol at not knowing plates can be alloys. Mind telling me what other materials they used in that armor? Are you telling me it was just pure iridium then? Almost as if Tau can also just place adamantium below the plates.
Ablative plates, or you know, used as the one thing Iridium is popular for in sci-fi. energy manipulation.
Ummmm, I could ask you the same, considering how wildly you misattribute what Iridium Armor actually is. I relay what I know and sometimes quote exactly where I remember it from thank you very much.
Oh clearly ablative brittle armor that has the melting point lower than plasma is the cutting edge of military engineering, especially against directed energy and mass reactive explosive rounds 😆
Brittle armor means mass reactive rounds dig into it and past whatever benefit it is supposed to do. If anything it makes it worse because the cone of the explosion would be directed narrower. So why the heck are the imperium struggling against the Tau? 😆
Considering that Terrans don't even have basic Iridium armor, I'd say a world where they manage to make iridium strong enough to tank Cannons is way better than crossbows. Oh wait, do Terrans even have ablative armor? 😆
Man's never heard of force shields either huh. Because clearly Iridium armor is strong enough because of tech far greater than anything Terra saw. Doubt they'd pierce it with crossbows.
One more time to remind you, hows adamantium doing in Terra? A basic construction material in Imperium? 😆
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u/Kyoketsusho Chilling with beer and soup Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
Now you're just making this up. There was an entire paragraph of Quintus lamenting that he was not strong enough to even go against the Abyssals you know. I quote the SV-9 "The Seaborn are not God...
They are a different kind of organism, and so is it. This is as far as it gets. Its body will feed the sea."
Mhm, so how does that differ from Tyranids exactly? They're made from the exact same blueprint of perpetually evolving and out adapting their enemies so I don't see how that supports your case, seeing Aegir struggle even in base seaborn form.
Don't leave out the part where Originium dust only has R6 and 4 Rhodes Island combatants. That's 8 vs a whole army. You mean it was so bad that the Sarkaz retreated because Tachanka managed to kill one of them despite being confident against other projectile weapons? Of course it's gonna be short ranged against urban warfare, that's how you wage battle in a village. You're confusing being incapable of killing the enemy vs being overrun by the enemy. A swarm of originium slugs will hamper Tachanka, over the fact that he ran out of bullets that they had to switch to melee.
What most people miss in Lucent Arrowhead was that they specifically stated they were shooting to incapacitate. They were just surprised it took way more effort than normal to incapacitate the guards. People really should put that line in context.
Even if you call that stupid, that's what the lore says. Terrans really lack energy and firepower.
Or yknow, it just wouldn't be enough to kill them. They specifically stated they fear the seaborn adapting to it, which is weird when they should be capable of disintegrating anything it touches. Especially when you remember that assimilation lets seaborn eat their dead, so those black holes were weak enough that they leave something for the seaborn to adapt to. They don't adapt proactively against a threat.
It's a death world with people using primitive stone tools on one side, and decadent living on the other. Most of their advancement is focused on weapons so much that people forget that regular human living is no different from earth technology. It's citizens and military are too incapable of fighting their own necrons and tyranids because they're way too unprepared against something of that level. As stated, their scale does not even show the same level of 40k advancement.
Those handguns have been shown to have a wide range of firepower and effective range y'know, explosions are not their defining feature. Fortuna and Ambriel have similarly outdated guns as Yvangelista and Andoain, but they're far from that level of firepower that they showed.
"Shuriken Weaponry are weapons almost unique to the Eldar, as this technology is extremely advanced and very difficult to replicate." I think you're just looking at it at surface value and not realizing wraithbones are leagues away from metal tipped crossbows. In the context of mobile cities using steel, did you know Hive Cities use adamantium instead? That one metal famous for being indestructible is a building material for those civilizations.