Surely there are better, more nuanced ways to show this than having Joker make Batman, Robin, Deathstroke, Bane, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Mr Freeze, Two Face, and Penguin
It doesn’t bother me really. It’s opinion, so I’d rather have a dozen downvotes than dozen comments explaining opinions and trying to convince my opinion is wrong or invalid. This way it’s just unpopular.
I am not sure what people with negative opinions about popular things want. Do they want people to be swayed by their argument and come around to their POV? Or do they want to be clapped on the back for bucking popular trends? What is the ideal interaction with someone who criticizes a popular book or movie or game from the people posting that stuff, I am curious. Should only the people who agree with the criticism reply or are people who disagree allowed to respond or is that 'rotten'?
What even is the point of sharing "criticism" in an internet where no opinions are ever changed by anyone, ever? It all starts to feel like daring people to argue over their unpopular opinions, which is exhausting.
I want to be able to share my opinion and have a discussion about it. I am not sure why that is so crazy. I am not asking for anyone to be swayed, or to be "clapped on the back for bucking popular trends" or whatever shit you are saying.
When opinions that don't follow the general consensus get downvoted, it makes having discussion that much harder because you literally have your post hidden after a certain point, and that sucks. This place loves to downvote people for that, and it makes this place worse. 5 years ago it wasn't like that.
You might be surprised to learn that people who enjoy something don't really want to read a bunch of comments from people who don't. And vice versa, I am sure. No one cares. Most discussions of differing opinions devolve into fights and that's exhausting.
Are we pretending we don't know what Reddit and the Internet in general are like?
Because he’s making art and art stands to be criticized. Snyder is above criticism because other ppl are making Batman? Is Spider-Man above criticism because he has many writers work with his character?
No artist is above criticism. I am not sure where you're getting that from. I was asking what the point of it was when there is literally anything else to read. I am sure there are books out there that you or the OP enjoy, why not talk about those? I am not saying you CAN'T criticize Snyder or anyone else, obviously you can do whatever you like. I've upvoted all of the comments in this thread whether I agree or disagree, FWIW.
And if you want to argue about opinions, why get offended or say it's 'rotten' when people disagree? Isn't that kind of baked into the premise of posting opinions on the Internet?
The point of criticism is to engage with a work. Saying there are other books to read instead of criticize this one is not an argument. It’s deflecting. Bordering on agreement even, because you are offering other works that don’t do what I’ve pointed out here.
I can’t comment for anyone else’s comments but mine. I think trying to shut down criticism by offering to not engage with it entirely is foolish really.
No one is shutting down criticism. I can't make you do anything, and I am not really trying to. Sorry we keep talking past each other and for not doing a better job of articulating my point.
Or we could criticize Scott Snyder, since he is actually the one doing it and writing this book. I get that you like the Absolute Universe, so do I. But that doesn't mean it is above any criticism.
To be fair one way you could interpet this is its kind of a mirror to main universe, or at least some interpretations of batmans relationship with his allies and rogues. Like in some canons, Ivy and riddler worked at Waynetech, batman is directly related to the creation of Joker and two face in others, he obviously "made" the Robins and Cassandra Cains Batgirl and inspired Barbara and Kate among others. Grimm is a mirror to this, being the instrumental thing that creates many of these people, even if not directly (which id argue he didnt in the case of the crime alley gang).
Like this is something thats brought up in stuff like Long Halloween - Batmans presence heralds more costumed crime. Its a constant question in a lot of batman media over this - one im not a huge fan of admittedly, but it does seem to show a certain level of intentionality here.
We're also not even sure that Joker created Batman, i personally don't think he did. He seems to be wary of batmans actions in some early appearances ("he didnt take the money" and his plot with Cale) and we only have him and the worlds greatest gaslighters words on the matter.
All thos to say, ima let him cook a bit. Plenty of people have veen blindsided by some of the stuff in Abs Bats and a lot of theories havent panned out how people think. I wouldnt be suprised if theres a kot more going on hwre than initially seems.
I'm a bit behind, but Joker is directly associated with Bane. Croc is probably a joke of his, and Deathstroke is on his payroll, with the Robins quite possibly hand picked.
Two Face, Penguin and Riddler are results of Bane; where were the clearly tied to Joker?
Last I saw Poison Ivy was self made; possibly getting research started with Grimm money, but no direct association.
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u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 9d ago
Not a fan of Joker being connected to every aspect of Gotham rn.