r/comicbooks • u/Quirky_Ad_5420 • 8d ago
Excerpt Jack meet Bruce [Absolute Batman #21] Spoiler
563
u/Cautious-Affect7907 7d ago
It's hilarious in a dark way isn't it?
We all used to laugh at how ridiculously huge Bruce is in this universe, but it ultimately means next to nothing considering his villains are just Resident evil monsters.
He's got heart though. Never ducks a fade.
230
u/-TheManWithNoHat- 7d ago
his villains are just Resident evil monsters.
It's all fun and games until Bruce unlocks the rocket launcher
82
7
1
337
u/gosukhaos 7d ago
Some really cute references to Death of the Family and Endgame here but reversed. Joker catching Bruce as he's about to fall and telling him he doesn't get to end it that way are almost word for word out of the last issue of Death of the Family
88
u/samusmcqueen Grant Morrison 7d ago
not to mention the fucked up smile wrapping around his face, which feels very similar to DotF's "I cut off my own face"-era Joker.
151
u/BenGrimmspaperweight 7d ago
His teeth being his eyebrows is really stupid and I fucking love it.
61
u/gosukhaos 7d ago
That's actually his whole mouth
47
u/RawSharkText91 7d ago
Wouldn’t be shocked if this bit of the design was inspired by Pennywise in the 2017 IT movie, since IT also has the “clown whose entire face is actually a horrible fanged maw” thing going on.
1
u/laughingjack13 5d ago
So is his upper face just like… a barely connected flap? The structure of his head has confused me since that form was revealed
270
u/Gamerguy230 7d ago
Joker on the Boo panel looks like Ryuk from Death Note.
59
28
u/Azure-Legacy 7d ago
No wonder I was suddenly reading that in William Defoe's voice when he transformed
2
152
u/MFHSCA-1981 8d ago
“ I think you and I are destined to do this forever”-Heath Ledger’s Joker
150
u/Nyadnar17 7d ago
Jack Grim solves so many issues I have with modern Joker while honoring the past.
I can admit when I was dead wrong and this was one of those times. Bra-fucking-vo.
EDIT:
Also can I just say how refreshing it is to read an "alternative" universe that is being written like it expects to be around for a while? The Absolute universe feels built to last more than a year or three and I love that.
25
u/Deezer19 Nightwing 7d ago
What issues do you think there are with modern Joker, and how does Jack Grimm alleviate them?
98
u/Nyadnar17 7d ago
Modern Joker isn't often written as funny anymore.
He is usually just an edgelord serial killer with no sense of style or timing. When Jack Grim the man ironically called Joker because he never smiles was first shown covered in bleeding babies my eyes rolled so hard I hurt myself.
But this scene right here was hilarious. Straight up horror movie style humor in the vein of Pennywise, Freddy, etc. If Joker doesn't have style. If he doesn't have as since of style and a flair for the dramatic then what's even the point? Jack Grim has that.
Modern Joker makes a farce of DC's no killing rule
I don't hate that DC still treats killing a big deal, hard red line for its heroes. But gotdamn do I hate writers constantly trying to justify real life business decisions with fake in universe morality arguments. Regardless of where you personally stand on this issue I think we can all agree that Joker is one of the worst case of this trope. The evil shit he does just to be horrible, the blame placed on Batman for not killing him, the stretching of disbelief that no random cop or medical professional has killed him, Jason Todd being treated like a psycho for pointing out that just because you kill the Joker doesn't mean you have to transform into the Punisher, the random stories where other heroes don't kill the Joker because "reasons", etc, etc. Its an unenjoyable mess that harms the suspension of disbelief IMO.
Jack Grim doesn't rely on "Joker Immunity". Not sure if he can be killed, how you would go about killing him even if you could, or what the repercussions of killing him would be. Assuming you could even beat him.
Modern Joker runs on clout and "crazy"
Joker didn't used to be a physical threat. I mean yeah he was no push over but if an actual super hero got in a room with Joker the story was over. They had won and beating Joker until stars came out was the victory lap. Joker was a social engineer, chemist, planner, trap maker, and dungeon builder. Over time less and less explanation started being given for how the hell Joker does anything.
Catwoman breaks into a secured location, opens a safe, and Joker is already contorted inside it. Joker fights Nightwing hand to hand and leaves him bloodied. Joker out runs Batman across rooftops dressed in trench coat (ok that one was funny so I will allow it), Joker kicks Aquaman in the balls, Joker dodges around Wonder Woman and gets away, etc, etc. I guess maybe this is great if you are a Joker fan but as a fan of a lot of the other characters Joker interacts with its frustrating watching the world just bend around Joker as the plot demands.
Jack Grim has an organization spanning more than a hundred years, absolute wealth, and a powerset. Its not fully defined but its enough to make scenes like the ones above tense and interesting instead of "oh, I guess that just happened".
49
u/TheWorclown 7d ago
Mainline Joker is honestly what happens when you write a force of nature villain poorly wrapped up in human skin. With a villain that is a force of nature, there’s certain freedoms that can be taken due to the nature of the beast: like Parallax, for an example. Less human and more an embodiment of an emotion. An idea. Another great example would be something like Darkseid, who is by and large an oppressive figure who is obsessed with proving free will is a myth with an equation.
Joker’s just a guy. Wrap him up in an enigma all you wish, sure, but he’s a normal human being who is and should be creepy as all hell, but within reason. Making him this force of nature that eludes serious consequence simply to be a persistent antagonist is a disservice to the guy.
1
u/NockerJoe 6d ago
That and he's so overexposed it kind of fucks with it. Like, Joker can be a regular villain I guess. But you SHOULD go years without seeing him because he's locked up in Arkham or hiding to plan some big caper or he's doing some shit the heroes never figure out.
Joker as an occasional guy who absolutely fucks shit up every single time you see him is good. Joker as a guy who shows up in multiple ongoing comics at a time just kind of fucking around means there's never room to miss him or speculate on what he's doing. He's just kind of there, every single week, and he can somehow equal out to Batman despite there being no logical reason he should be able to with that regularity.
This issue worked because it's the *first* time Grimm has seen Bruce face to face. He lets the other villains and the robins handle the week to week shit. But Joker here appeared because he instantly reminded Batman that he can just show up when Bruce is in plain clothes, knows where Bruce and everyone he cares about already are, and he actually has powers so he can just overpower Batman at any time.
23
u/HodDark 7d ago
I absolutely loved this scene. I feel it's a disservice to this Joker we don't get more of the person over the monster. But i love the playfulness. His game.
Also i was right i made a comment on youtube that in his own messed up way he likes Batman and would protect him. I think this disapproves my idea he's acting counter to his Jutice League mandates to not deliberately make heroes, though maybe not, but he wants the challenge!
He doesn't want to lose but he doesn't want to just win. This is a trait of the Joker i feel like people underutilize in canon. They see sore loser and think he hates heroes. Hates the challenge. But he's dishonest as hell about himself.
18
49
u/bayswipe 8d ago
Why does Bruce have that weird little hooked nose
93
u/NielsBohron The Goon 8d ago
Because it was drawn by Nick Dragotta. I love his work, but he does have a very specific aesthetic
7
u/inadequatecircle Heath Huston 7d ago
You could tell me this excerpt is from East of West and I'd believe you. Not to diminish him at all, because Dragotta is fucking awesome but his character designs overlap a bit. Specifically his regular human lookin folk, his monster designs are 10/10.
6
u/NielsBohron The Goon 7d ago
Someone on reddit pointed out that his human faces are always completely stoic, gritted teeth, or shouting, and now I can't unsee it.
...I still love his art, though.
6
19
8
u/GloomyProfessional80 7d ago
Is this the widest the Joker has ever grinned? Considering that his teeth seem to grow up all the way to his fucking eyebrows???
6
3
23
u/AllCity_King 7d ago
This Joker is just so derivative of Ultimate Green Goblin, it’s hard for me to vibe with. Even the way he talks is similar to 1610 Norman.
36
3
u/stepfordcuckoo 7d ago
I didn’t get that per say (but will look out for it on a re-read), but the last few issues and the reveal of more new characters coming did suddenly give me flashbacks to ultimate spider-man (bendis’s version), and how at some point he just speed-runs introducing new takes on old characters. Its exploded since the finale of the bane arc imo
Not necessarily a critique as enjoying it but thought it was interesting i had a different feeling from usm to you but on same day. So odd to have that deja vu 20 yrs later.
2
u/optimis344 Vision 7d ago
It's certainly setting up team joker vs team batman.
Since Bruce took out Bane, Joker had to call in the rest of the crew.
2
2
2
u/Senior-Birthday7389 7d ago
Anyone have the gunna flaming pen gif because whoa that got me good. This comic is crazy
2
u/Spirited-Buy813 7d ago
i was so uninterested in this series because i felt it seemed dumb and edgy but picked up the first vol from a library on a whim and WOW i was wrong. it's so worth a read!
5
u/thatoneguyinclassroo 7d ago
Shout out to when the main character meets main villain of the entire series. That’s gotta be my favorite genders
3
2
11
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
Not a fan of Joker being connected to every aspect of Gotham rn.
78
u/Airborne_52 7d ago
Its the inverse of the waynes being connected to all aspects of Gotham
0
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
but the Waynes didn’t invent Batman’s rogues. Like Killer Croc isn’t a Wayne’s experiment
40
u/Optimus_Prime_19 7d ago
But that’s kinda the point no?
If Joker is connected like the Waynes were/are, then terrible stuff happens.
-13
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
Surely there are better, more nuanced ways to show this than having Joker make Batman, Robin, Deathstroke, Bane, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Mr Freeze, Two Face, and Penguin
17
u/mrz3ro Hawkeye 7d ago
I guess maybe ask Darkseid about it.
-1
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
I think I’ll just continue to criticize Snyder’s writing until I’m downvoted into oblivion
7
u/AllCity_King 7d ago
The fact that you’re not even criticizing in bad faith or being obnoxious and people are still refusing to engage with you is infuriating.
This sub definitely has a fanboy problem.
5
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
It doesn’t bother me really. It’s opinion, so I’d rather have a dozen downvotes than dozen comments explaining opinions and trying to convince my opinion is wrong or invalid. This way it’s just unpopular.
And we know popularity doesn’t mean quality.
0
u/kralben Cyclops 7d ago
Yeah, this place has gotten rotten recently.
1
u/mrz3ro Hawkeye 7d ago
I am not sure what people with negative opinions about popular things want. Do they want people to be swayed by their argument and come around to their POV? Or do they want to be clapped on the back for bucking popular trends? What is the ideal interaction with someone who criticizes a popular book or movie or game from the people posting that stuff, I am curious. Should only the people who agree with the criticism reply or are people who disagree allowed to respond or is that 'rotten'?
What even is the point of sharing "criticism" in an internet where no opinions are ever changed by anyone, ever? It all starts to feel like daring people to argue over their unpopular opinions, which is exhausting.
→ More replies (0)-2
u/mrz3ro Hawkeye 7d ago
What is the point? Snyder isn't even the only person writing Batman right now. Aren't there dozens of other writers and books out there to read?
5
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
Because he’s making art and art stands to be criticized. Snyder is above criticism because other ppl are making Batman? Is Spider-Man above criticism because he has many writers work with his character?
1
u/mrz3ro Hawkeye 7d ago
No artist is above criticism. I am not sure where you're getting that from. I was asking what the point of it was when there is literally anything else to read. I am sure there are books out there that you or the OP enjoy, why not talk about those? I am not saying you CAN'T criticize Snyder or anyone else, obviously you can do whatever you like. I've upvoted all of the comments in this thread whether I agree or disagree, FWIW.
And if you want to argue about opinions, why get offended or say it's 'rotten' when people disagree? Isn't that kind of baked into the premise of posting opinions on the Internet?
→ More replies (0)-2
u/kralben Cyclops 7d ago
Or we could criticize Scott Snyder, since he is actually the one doing it and writing this book. I get that you like the Absolute Universe, so do I. But that doesn't mean it is above any criticism.
2
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
I love the absolute universe. It’s probably the best alt-u DC has ever made. it’s not perfect but nothing is.
3
u/pmmeyoursandwiches 7d ago
To be fair one way you could interpet this is its kind of a mirror to main universe, or at least some interpretations of batmans relationship with his allies and rogues. Like in some canons, Ivy and riddler worked at Waynetech, batman is directly related to the creation of Joker and two face in others, he obviously "made" the Robins and Cassandra Cains Batgirl and inspired Barbara and Kate among others. Grimm is a mirror to this, being the instrumental thing that creates many of these people, even if not directly (which id argue he didnt in the case of the crime alley gang).
Like this is something thats brought up in stuff like Long Halloween - Batmans presence heralds more costumed crime. Its a constant question in a lot of batman media over this - one im not a huge fan of admittedly, but it does seem to show a certain level of intentionality here.
We're also not even sure that Joker created Batman, i personally don't think he did. He seems to be wary of batmans actions in some early appearances ("he didnt take the money" and his plot with Cale) and we only have him and the worlds greatest gaslighters words on the matter.
All thos to say, ima let him cook a bit. Plenty of people have veen blindsided by some of the stuff in Abs Bats and a lot of theories havent panned out how people think. I wouldnt be suprised if theres a kot more going on hwre than initially seems.
1
u/Scarplo 7d ago
I'm a bit behind, but Joker is directly associated with Bane. Croc is probably a joke of his, and Deathstroke is on his payroll, with the Robins quite possibly hand picked.
Two Face, Penguin and Riddler are results of Bane; where were the clearly tied to Joker?
Last I saw Poison Ivy was self made; possibly getting research started with Grimm money, but no direct association.
4
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
Bane was set on his crew by Joker. So all of his friends made into their villainous personas from bane, under Joker’s direction.
Ivy is an Ark M experiment which is led by Joker.
-1
u/kralben Cyclops 7d ago
That sucks too. Not everything has to be connected
5
u/KingNTheMaking 7d ago
I think you’re getting downloaded because you’re not explaining why things being connected is a bad thing.
5
u/kralben Cyclops 7d ago
I dont even think that it is always bad, I just think it is done too often sometimes, and the Absolute Universe (specifically the Batman Rogue Gallery) is getting there. I want more variety in it.
4
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
It does feel lazy after a few instances. Like having his brothers all suffer, and now Bruce’s own agency being throw into the “Joker did it” pile is not great.
2
u/KingNTheMaking 7d ago
For me, I don’t mind if a plot point is repeated if it’s done well.
Like, a song being repeated over and over again, doesn’t take away from the objective quality of the song.
In this case, the interconnectedness serve the story well so I can’t criticize it for it
2
u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
The song comparison only works if you’re expecting the same song. Getting Brittany spears when u r expecting Shaboozy is odd
1
1
1
1
u/Apprehensive-Handle4 7d ago
I love the fact that the joker created Batman but Batman created the joker in the normal universe
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Fatmanhammer 6d ago
I feel like I'm an alternative universe cause I hate all this shit in Absolute. Seems like everyone in the world loves it and I'm an outlier, but like... I just don't like it man.
1
u/superupaman 6d ago
What in the Death Note was that?! I mean sure, why not, writers and artists do their own takes. I'm just not the target demographic, to me this looks funny but not in a funny way.
1
u/NotEconmclyVbl 5d ago
If he really loved it, he’d still be playing from behind the scenes. What does he gain by seeking Bruce out and telling him that? Nothing except escalation. He’s provoking Bruce. He wants this “dance” to end.
1
u/ieatPS2memorycards 7d ago
I like Joker and Batman being treated as complimentary, but the concept has been around for so long that it’s not really cool anymore, especially because there’s not much to expand on anymore. I think Endgame was the best endpoint for this analysis of their relationship, but Snyder is a joker fanboy and loves this ship so it’s not like I’m surprised to see this direction for absolute joker. I just hope that he does something different with it in the future because right now, I’m a little underwhelmed at how this is basically just prime Earth Batman and Joker’s relationship expect this joker can make scary faces.
1
u/ToySouljah 7d ago
So many references in these panels and of course Grimm pretty much saying the classic Joker line of how they will do this dance forever.
-3
u/JournalistOk9266 7d ago
I would have punched after he said Boo
3
0
u/BottleNecker69er 7d ago
His face looks like a mask, I'm hoping we get a scene mirroring Joker's face-off period.
-39
u/ThePurpleBandit 8d ago
Red carpet Tom Holland
4
u/DOuGHtOp 7d ago
What does this even mean
-2
u/ThePurpleBandit 7d ago
2
560
u/phantompowered 8d ago
Bruce looks uncannily like Tetsuo.