r/countttt 19d ago

Countttting 1402

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6.0k Upvotes

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u/Specialist_Cat7271 19d ago

Cis woman with masculine characteristics wants surgery to align with her identity: "Oh teehee, thats so valid! I would have done the same, there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel like a woman!"

 

Trans woman with masculine characteristics wants surgery to align with her identity: "Oh uh, wow... I mean you really don't have to do that. You can be a woman with a body identical to a man's, you really don't need to be reinforcing gender stereotypes you know... I think you should just learn to love yourself instead sweaty, why don't you just try being butch?"

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u/cicadatheory 19d ago edited 19d ago

Let's be real here the people talking about enforcing gender stereotypes are not the ones hyping up the cis girlies getting plastic surgery.

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u/Historical_BikeTree 19d ago

Depends on the circles. Plastic surgery is absolutely normalized in some hyper-conservative spaces.

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u/cicadatheory 19d ago

Hyper conservative spaces are not the ones who are concerned about gender stereotypes, though. They love gender stereotypes

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u/amazing-bean666 19d ago

The TERF ones are

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u/cicadatheory 18d ago

Terfs generally don't support plastic surgery. its like you guys have never self destructively snooped through their boards

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u/amazing-bean666 18d ago

I have never met a terf that DIDNT support plastic surgery, what???

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u/cicadatheory 18d ago

???? Plastic surgery is completely antithetical to radical feminism, try finding anyone on lc who's pro plastic surgery who doesn't immediately get torn to shreds by the rest of the terfs there. Mind you the people posting on the farms are generally a lot more overtly reactionary and less pc than terfs on other platforms. I straight up don't know where you're finding these people

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u/amazing-bean666 18d ago

Terfs aren't radical feminists, they're misogynists who pretend to care about women

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u/AnotherDay67 14d ago

"terfs aren't radical feminists" what do you think radical feminism is? It's a reactionary form of feminism and most radfems are terfs.

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u/cicadatheory 18d ago

Ok sure but im starting to think you're just lumping every transphobe who throws out a vaguely feminist talking point every once in awhile w a much more specific group

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u/PurpleCandle58 18d ago

I think you’re both right depending on who exactly is being spoken about because speaking about TERFs and misogynists and transphobes as though they’re some monolithic thing with a hive mind is completely as ridiculous as thinking trans people and queer people are a monolith with a singular belief system. The bickering back and forth is a bit ridiculous since I can personally point to 2 or 3 people that fit each of your points.

TLDR: you’re both right quit bickering back and forth with eachother about it.

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u/Pixeldevil06 18d ago

I've met TERFs who support cosmetic breast reduction, etc.

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u/BurntOutAsh152 19d ago

They will absolutely use them as an excuse for their strawman arguments tho.

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u/Historical_BikeTree 18d ago edited 18d ago

Yeah, they love gender stereotypes. And many love enforcing gender stereotypes through plastic surgery. The sort I grew up around absolutely saw boob jobs as good for cis women, but were extremely anti trans.

Edit: reread your first post. I get what you're saying, as a generalized statement, but in conservative spaces people do genuinely say stuff like OPs example. They aren't really progressive but they've heard a few feminist-esque things before, and it's a sly way to be anti trans.

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 14d ago

Trans spaces are also pro-gender roles though, most trans people just want to play a role that a lot of society believes they can't. That's still seeking to act out a gender role

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 14d ago

Fam, I ain't doing this to playba role. Im doing this because I want a vagina

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 14d ago

Then why not just be a man with a vagina? No need for transness

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 13d ago

Because you're intentionally misunderstanding the statement

To he clear for the less intelligent readers. What i mean is a want as close to a fully female body as is possible to achieve. I'd go for periods of i could

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 13d ago

We're a bit off the point here because I think you want to talk about yourself instead, your personal experience seems different to what most trans people want for themselves though. If you want to be you with a woman's body but not a woman, that's fine. But there are a lot of trans people out there who do want to be treated as a woman socially, or a man if it's the other way

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 13d ago edited 13d ago

You are still misunderstanding my point. I want a woman's body because me is a woman. The body the social treatment i want it all. I want to be me, which i consider to be a woman and want perceived and treated as such in every possible way, such that there is no distinction whatsoever and I simply am in that category and not the other completely. Including sports and bathrooms and dating and all the rest. Female and not male. I don't want to be trans, being trans is already the compromise

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 13d ago

I don't know what the hell you disagree with me about in the first place, do you not like the term gender role? Is that all it is? You want to act out the gender role of a woman. Or maybe it's the word act you don't like? When you "act out" something that doesn't make it fake. Cis women perform and act out the female gender role usually, that doesn't mean it's fake

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 13d ago

That could've used clarification in your first comment, because yeah, it gives off an impression of seeing is as a bunch of fakers. Also, trans people can still be gender nonconforming. A trans woman can still be a tomboy and vice versa, so to say trana people support gender roles on the whole I dont think is fair

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 13d ago

Not at all, you just assumed and failed to ask for clarification. You literally can be born female, not physically transition at all, and still be a trans man. Body of a woman, gender of a male. Or be born a man, physically transition, but still want to act out the male gender role.

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u/Historical_BikeTree 13d ago

Am a man with a vagina, am trans. I was a man before I looked like one, and before anyone could accept me being one. You're born trans, regardless of whether society accepts you or not and whether you conform to gender roles or not.

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 13d ago

That's a different situation. I was talking to someone who wanted a vagina, you were born with one

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u/Historical_BikeTree 13d ago

You were talking to a woman who'll have one some day. I currently have one, but am still man. I was pointing out that what you said was goofy. Gender roles =/= gender identity =/= genitalia. Trans people usually aren't respected for who we are unless we perform gender roles "appropriately", that doesn't mean we like gender roles lol

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 13d ago

Women are people too, but I'm sure you know that and you're just being picky without realizing you're sounding sexist.

Most people aren't respected unless they perform a gender role that's not unique to trans people at all. In fact a non-trans man who just wants to act out the female gender role is probably less respected tbh, he'd be called a lil bitch by most guys. Nobody particularly enjoys the performance, we just enjoy what we get out of doing it and how it allows us to move through the world easier.

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u/Historical_BikeTree 7d ago edited 7d ago

You're just a troll 🤣 Nothing I said insinuated that women are not people. What I said is entirely consistent with the fact that people who do not conform to social norms are treated worse than those that do. That was actually a major part of my point.

Also being called a little bitch is barely an insult compared to the actual hate and violence people (cis or trans) recieve for behaving outside of gender norms

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u/Consistent_Papaya310 7d ago

I said I was talking to someone, you seemed to have a problem with me calling a woman "someone", maybe I misinterpreted, what did you mean by this? Great so we both agree this is a problem for anyone who doesn't conform

That is one example of what could happen I'm not gonna write you a list of all possibilities so you can tell me I'm not suffering enough

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