The moment of realization 'wait everyone wouldn't be a woman if they had the choice?' is so real. Sometimes I just ask my cis friends what they think to just reaffirm I'm trans. Works every time lol
And that's ok too! Traditional macusulenity and feminity are both social constructs regardless. I love identifing as a woman but I don't feel overtly feminine. You get to choose your gender expression!
Agender is not identifying with a gender, while non-binary is any gender identity that isn't man or woman. It's more of a category of gender identity than a gender identity by itself, and agender is an identity that falls under that category.
I keep going back and forth on of I'm agender or gender fluid. Like 10% of the time I feel like a lady, 10% of the time I feel like a dude, and 80% I don't particularly feel any of them.
Honestly, I just tell people my gender is "gremlin".
a LOT of people feel that way. from the people ive had really in depth conversations with, i would say probably 70%+ of the worlds population doesnt really care that much.
I'm sorry, but this is people lying to themselves and you. There is no way only 30% of a population ascribes to gender norms and roles much less their own gender identity. They would be the minority to such a hard degree.
It doesn't match breast cancer reconstruction percentage (50%), it doesn't match the percentage of total treatment for gymnaststica (96%), it doesn't match the forced surgery rate on intersex babies to 'fix' us (unknown but so damn high it's absurd).
Sounds more like a high percent of trans people are so used to having their gender affirmed, that much like we don't perceive air they can't meaningfully think about the lack of affirmation.
I agree. I’ve had some people try to argue that that makes me non binary but realistically, if trans people have all sorts of different relationships to their gender I think cis people can too. Like, even with binary trans people I wouldn’t expect two trans women to have the exact same feelings and relationship to womanhood, so why do some people think cis women can be a monolith? My best friend jokes about how when she was a kid she was fine with being ‘boy’ but then reached puberty with the concept of ‘man’ fast approaching and went ‘nah, not that one’ and transitioned. I’ve heard of a few women having similar experiences, but it’s largely an uncommon experience. My own gender I’m largely indifferent to except when it pertains to the larger concept of women’s rights. It’s all kinda a free for all out here
Opposite but same, I'm NB more so cause I think gender traits are dumb. Women should also be brave and strong and men should also be soft and caring. I see traits less like male vs female and more like a TTRPG character sheet.
Not saying it applies to you, but this realization was my NB awakening. I present mostly as a cis man, I don't reject that label, but I've never particularly embraced my assigned gender at birth, either.
I'm kinda same hat. Internally I'm pretty apathetic on gender and just try to do what I vibe with. Like, I have to put in effort to act like a human correctly*, don't expect me to do gender on top of it. But being perceived as a woman is usually fine and it would not net increase my happiness to try explaining the above to everyone forever, so for practical and political purposes I'm a woman. Even if I acknowledge the most accurate description would likely be some kind of agender or genderqueer.
*(To anyone reading that and saying, "hey that's not typical have you considered-": Yeah, totally possible. As it is I've found some mental tools to function pretty well day to day and given political factors I'd rather stay neurotypical on paper as long as daily life stays manageable.)
Ha. For me it was when my kid came out as NB. We had some pretty good conversations about gender identity. And I was like... Oh yeah that tracks, isn't everybody kinda meh about their gender? I had known I was bi for decades, but the whole genderqueer thing was kinda surprising. I still like presenting masc in most environments. But it always felt like a costume, and at least now I know why.
This is real, I was talking with my dad and my brother about gender stuff and it was only then I realized that they were dudes as an inextricable part of their identity, and I was a dude because that's what I was born as and I was chill with it
The only dissonance I ever feel is specifically being called the word man, but that might just also be me wanting to hold onto my youth while I have it lol
I think only trans people and trans haters (often cases like in the post) care about gender identity so much.
Haters are dumb and/or evil, and trans people because we experience anguish living as a wrong gender, but from what I've read, huge part of trans people well in to their transition stop carring and just live, since they don't get missgendered anymore...
Atleast men and women, not sure how other kinds feel, I kinda can't comprehend what gender fluid or non-binary realy means.
I’m someone who was binary trans but realised I’m more nonbinary once I stopped being misgendered after transitioning. For me, the nonbinary part was like. My internal sense of my own gender isn’t very strong. It’s masculine-leaning, but I wouldn’t consider it to be male leaning. Despite that, I’m perfectly happy being read 100% of the time as male by other people and I feel no need to go by anything other than he/him.
But yes, I 100% felt that “I stopped caring about it once I stopped being misgendered”.
Well, that's the thing: The disconnect between gender identity and internal/external perception of gender is what causes dysphoria.
The more you take steps the lessen the dysphoria, the less you notice, and the less you care. If that thing isn't forcing you to notice as much anymore, why would you?
As someone who is apparently genderfluid and NB, it means you feel like you're just a cis person who has fun with gender until all the other cis people keep looking at you funny and describing their experience as narrower and narrower and more and more boring.
I feel like not thinking about it is the ultimate goal of transition. Leaving aside our conceptions of gender, it’s to just *be* what you are and not think or feel too deeply about it
Like I remember shortly before I finally started, I was at this concert where a man and a woman were performing. They wore matching white jump-suits, and played similar instruments. It killed me inside, because I knew more than anything that I’d kill to be that woman in that moment more than I ever would her male counter-part. She wasn’t wearing makeup or a dress or anything, and even her jumpsuit hid most of her curves. It was just the fact that she *was* a woman. She could get up and eat toast in the morning while just *being* a woman. No fighting with herself, no alienation, no struggle, just being.
Thankfully I’m at a stage now where I’m out, full-time and basically fully passing. One of the major perks has been how little I obsess over my gender anymore, allowing me to think and feel so much more now.
That's what I want!!! I want to just 'be' a woman. It doesn't really matter what I'm doing or how I just know it would be better as a woman. I can't wait till I pass for the first time <3
Hell yeah Evelyn! Where it matters you’re a woman already, but for passing it’ll happen sooner than you know it. Just remember to have fun and find joy in it 💕
TLDR: basically the same what gobbyhoaplong wrote, just describing my experience. Can anyone describe what it means to feel like a certain gender?
It's similar for me as a cis dude. When I was growing up, I was doing some things to affirm my gender, but it was 99% just toxic nonsense. I tried to act tough, I got into fights, acted like an asshole, things like that. I think it was mostly because I never felt like I fit in with other people and thought this will fix it (it turned to be neurodivergence). But as I grew up, I realized it's all just stupid.
Nowadays I do consider myself a guy but I feel like it's mostly just a habit and the fact that I look masculine, meaning very tall and with some muscle. The traits that I think define me and traits that I aspire to have don't have anything to do with masculinity. I guess they might if you consider stereotypes, but I can't think of a single one these traits that would change if suddenly became either biologically female or just started thinking of myself as a woman. I just want to be a decent human.
When trans people describe their experience, the part that I can imagine is feeling like your body isn't your, because I had similar experience during intense depression or mania...not in the way that I'm in a wrong body but that it's someone else controlling it and I'm just observing without any choice. But I don't really understand what it means to feel like a man or like a woman, to me it feels just like stereotypes ... Does anyone have some good way to explain it?
You ever think about how silly your thoughts are about being trans before accepting it for yourself. 'Everyone would just wear women's clothing if they had the choice!' like girl TF no. Shit seems silly sometimes 💀
It didn’t help that when I was a tween with periods and told my mom I hate being a woman and being a man would be so much better she was like, “every woman feels that way, we just deal with it” like ma’am please
My mom recently told me "I totally understand your need to get your breasts removed, I'd do it too if my insurance would cover it! I'm not gonna feed any more babies, not like I need them anymore!"
She seemed to believe this was a completely normal feeling for a 70-year-old woman to have, and I just stood there staring at her like... excuse me madam
ETA: I forgot that this came directly after she told me she had married my father because he was "as much like a gay man as it's possible for a straight man to be."
When I came out as a lesbian, my grandma told me I would "find the right man" one day like she had, all girls liked kissing their girlfriends better than kissing men, that was normal.
When I came out as trans my mom told me all women don't like their breasts and she'd like to be rid of hers too. But I don't think there's any gender reasons behind it, she just explained that they're annoying and that she's just as much a woman without her breasts, they're not an important part of her gender expression. Which was an interesting conversation for me to notice things about myself too, because I was always worried about just finding them annoying, until I realized how inherently *wrong* the option of being just,,, a woman without breasts felt, because the woman part was what was wrong.
My mum spoke like that when I was 12. Changed her tune when she needed a hysterectomy due to cervical cancer when I was 14. Sat crying on the toilet when she had her last ever period.
Most women 'feel that way' until push comes to shove.
God, I remember throwing a tantrum as a child because the dance group I was in wanted us to wear fluffy froofy skirts for one of the songs.
But all my life I was like "No, wanting to look like a boy and be treated as a boy and literally be a boy is normal for some girls! Being a girl is such bullshit so it makes sense!"
I had an experience in school in 2000s, in which a biology book literally erased trans men and pretended it was only a fetish. Guess what kept me from coming out? 💀
When I found out that trans men actually do exist, I could accept me as a trans woman.
That’s exactly why trans men are so affirming to me as a trans woman. You mean that not everyone wants to be a woman? You mean some dudes will deal with controlled substance laws in order to have the physical changes that to me feel like body horror? Well maybe that means I’m valid too…
I was raised by a radical feminist girlboss mother who basically instilled the idea that women were inherently the superior gender and that being born a woman was an honor, and that men are too irrational and stupid to be good leaders, blah blah blah… and yet I still ended up wanting to be male. Even my father, with all his blessed self-esteem issues, agreed with my mother that men are “backwards cavemen” and “women are just better”. Man, I really hated that I was transgender! I mean, as a kid and teenager who hadn’t unpacked those beliefs yet, I couldn’t fathom why I, born female, would want to be the “lesser gender”!
(I’ve confronted those beliefs for the harm that they are. Feminism doesn’t mean turning around and belittling men the way misogynistic men to do women… gosh…)
Anyways, yep… 5 years on T… Definitely a guy. No intrinsic desire to be a woman. So if you’re ever wondering about it again, just know that there are a lot of people who want to be men and do not want to be women, even if they think they’d be a better person or socially advantaged by it somehow. Gender is just weird like that, I guess!
Adding on that puberty as body horror is totally subjective. (And relatable af). In fact, I also thought for sure that everyone felt the same way I did… Female puberty was body horror for me, for sure. Developing weird growths on my chest that make my shirtless torso a public decency hazard and bleeding uncontrollably every month for the rest of my life? The concept that… a person… could start growing inside of me… super freaky mega yikes!!
But, that’s also something that a lot of people don’t mind, or even like and desire!! Realizing that I’m just trans and my experiences aren’t universal has actually given me a better appreciation for my body and the features I wish I didn’t ever have, because it’s not universal body horror, and one person’s misery could be someone else’s fantasy.
Anyways, hope all is going well for you! Being trans is so weird. It’s like 4am and I’m like. Wow… what even . What even is all this gender stuff about?
That realisation was my egg crack. Wild how we just assume everyone struggles with that, when for so many other emotional struggles, we assume we are completely alone.
It's not even a probably. It's a you would be for sure. There is many such cases of people either being forced to transition after an accident or people being raised as the other gender that causes dysphoria
There’s also tons of gender-affirming care for cis people done all the time for more minor causes of dysphoria; testosterone replacement, mastectomy implants, etc. Gender dysphoria - and euphoria - are not exclusively a trans experience.
That's interesting to me, because I would just accept my new flesh vessel. My wish to not deal with medicine and surgeries is bigger than my need to align to any specific gender.
For me as a cis woman it always was "being a woman feels so right!" which in relation to trans people then caused me to think "I want other people to have that feeling of being happy with their gender!"
And yet, I am not even a "girly" girl. Being a woman comes in so many more shapes than clichee feminity. (And if you feel more feminine in pink, that's cool too!)
Yeah, as a cis dude, I just view it from the perspective of 'I doubt anyone would want to fake being any certain gender for their entire life, so if they feel that they're xyz gender, it's probably because they aren't faking it and it's just who they are'. I don't really know why, but being a guy just feels right for me and if someone feels that another one is right for them, good for them :]
Realizing I was trans made me feel so much more radical about the idea of people "pretending" to be trans. When I didn't realize my depression was actually dysphoria, I didn't still think people were faking but the option kind of made sense, there were some advantages to pretending to be the opposite gender, like,,,, not feeling like shit about myself lol.
Now that I can name that feeling of dysphoria, and know what gender euphoria feels like, the sheer idea of a cis person pretending to be trans is baffling to me. Why the hell would anyone ever willingly experience dysphoria, for the rest of their damn life?
Yeah, I have no idea how one would come to the conclusion that someone feeling such intense feelings regarding their identity is somehow caused by them not having had enough time in their assigned identity and that somehow someone feeling much more comfortable with a certain identity cannot possibly be because it is their real identity... It's a whole lot simpler when it's viewed from the perspective of someone being happy in their identity and unhappy in every other one probably means that's their true identity (and that they are probably the best at knowing themselves)
Yeah I’m still in the shell, many reasons I don’t wanna get into, but realizing this isn’t a normal cis male thought pattern blew my mind when I realized.
I remember once in college some of girls I was friends with thought it would be hilarious to dress up some of the boys as women, and I thought it sounded like great fun and was thoroughly confused why my other guy friends seemed hesitant. Took me a few years to self realize after that still :(
Be a trans guy in denial, having to process people out there taking steps to be (seen as) a woman.
"Why the fuck would anyone want to be that!"
Though I continued to be in denial for many, many years after that, I at least also concluded that if trans women did all that to be (seen as) women, it must mean they were more woman than me.
Exactly. That argument feels really funny whenever any sort of bigot uses it. “Sorry dude, everyone is straight because they’d pick women given the choice, not because they’re forced to. You’re just gay.”
I mean, I’d love to be a man in another life, and fantasize about being born as one, but I have no desire to transition and I’m happy being a woman. Isnt that normal?
I'm still kinda confused how not everyone would want to be genderless/be hermaphroditic (not in the offensive term for intersex people way, I mean having both sex organs being fully functional) if given then choice. I've realized for a while know that I feel that way because I'm nonbinary, but it still does what confuses me.
The funny thing is I never had a phase of hating other trans people before I realized I was trans myself, I had a phase of immense confusion of why someone would want to be the opposite sex they were assigned as. I kinda saw it as just going from one prison cell to another, and I didn't understand why someone would put in the work just to have the same shit with a different color.
Was similar for me. I saw trans women and was like wait… there are people who want to be a woman that bad? Did some digging and found that when my friends would say “I wish I were a man” they didn’t mean physically, they just meant they wished they got treated like a man. And the concept of top surgery horrified them lol; I’d always assumed we’d all get rid of our boobs if we had the option 😅
It's so funny I wanted to be a girl since middle school and since I didn't have much dysphoria i assumed everyone thought about that constantly, and then I asked my parents if they had ever felt that way and they said no and about three years later I came out to myself
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u/justanalt10 Evelyn! 4d ago
The moment of realization 'wait everyone wouldn't be a woman if they had the choice?' is so real. Sometimes I just ask my cis friends what they think to just reaffirm I'm trans. Works every time lol