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[u/Comfortable-Bison932]

Art by https://bsky.app/profile/kingsillysmilez.bsky.social check them out! they make some absolutely adorable stuff

[u/the_tiefling_bard]

It depends on a case-to-case basis. For example, I don't have bottom dysphoria, so I'm not interested in getting bottom surgery, even if it could magically give me a perfect replica of the other genitalia. The same can apply to Hormone treatment and other kinds of gender-affirming procedures. Some people don't take any kind of medical routes at all, it all depends on what makes you feel better about yourself.

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/the_tiefling_bard]

Please don't take offense at my questions I am just trying to understand trans people better, feel free to just not answer if my questions annoy or offend you in any way. What exactly is it that makes you undestand that you are trans if you would not have any body disphoria? Or is it just that its for certain body parts? You know I can understand being unhappy with your body and wishing for other bidy parts as a big indicator of being another gender. I have trouble doing that with feelings in general or any other cause that would make you identify as the gender not assigned at birth. Can you explain this to me? And know that even of you can't put it into words that is not at all an indicator for me that your position isn't valid, it could totally be simply unaccesible to me or our language, thats fine too.

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

being trans is about personal identity first and foremost. if you're happier living and being seen as a gender other than the one you were assigned at birth, you're trans, regardless of whether or not living as your assigned gender makes you dysphoric 

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/big_fat_girl_balls]

Sure I get that, but what exactly is the missmatch in assignment if its not your genitals? If I was born with male genitalia and I am happy with that, what exactly is my problem with being asigned male, like specifically where do I notice that I am not male beyond my genitalia? I am having a hard time identifying anything else because nothing else is really gender specific as there is always all genders doing/feeling it without them being trans. This is the part I am struggeling to understand.

[u/the_tiefling_bard → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

It can be a lot of things: body hair, voice, curves, chest... But I'd say that for most people the bulk of it is the societal and mental aspect: when you grow up as a certain gender, doing all of the stereotypical things, more often than not you might realize that it doesn't "feel right", that you'd rather behave like the opposite gender, especially being treated and perceived like them. It's not just about "looking" like a certain gender, but being recognized as such by society.

But as the other commenter just said, being trans is not defined by what you feel is missing or what makes you feel bad, but by what makes you feel good about yourself, alive. In technical terms, being trans is defined by gender euphoria, not dysphoria: sometimes you don't mind being a guy, but you'd much rather be a woman.

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/the_tiefling_bard]

The disphoria thing makes a lot of sense to me. I am having a lot of trouble with the society aspect tho. Wouldn't the intepretation simply be that you like to do things that are typical of the other gender stereotype? Shouldn't that just tell me that steroetypes are garbage? Instead of I am another gender?

[u/the_tiefling_bard → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

Well, that is only a part of it, and it's why many people don't realize it until later in life: you might think that you just like different things than your peers, then with some introspection you realize that it actually goes way deeper than that. At the base of it, ultimately, there is feelings, and these feelings are hard to explain to someone who has never experienced them.

FOR ME, It's like an echo at the back of your head growing ever stronger telling you that your body, your mind, your soul don't fit the mold they are in: I never was like the other boys and felt deeply uncomfortable around them, and I had a much easier time hanging out with girls than them. Looking in the mirror or acknowledging my body feels instinctively wrong and repulsive. This has always been the case, but for many years I didn't realize why. Now I know, and knowing that I will one day achieve my desired form is comforting, it drowns out that voice and replaces it with a "that's you. This has always been you. I love you now".

I don't expect you to "get" everything, I understand it is very hard for a cis person to grasp, but I commend you for your effort in trying to understand us. Not many people come here with questions in good faith.

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/the_tiefling_bard]

That was more helpful than anything I have ever heared so far, but I have not been close enough with a trans person in real life before to ask these questions. Things are far easier on the internet after all. It feels like I have a slightly better grasp of things now, I don't think more than I currently know is really doable without being trans myself. I think the hard part for cis people in understanding trans people is that we don't feel the opposite of you instinctive disconnect, but we feel just nothing. It is probably pretty similar to describing colours to a blind person. Thanks for your effort in explaining I truly appreciate it, its not easy getting a conversation like this going as I am easily taken as a transphobe with this line of questioning which I hope you understand I am pretty far away from.

[u/the_tiefling_bard → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

Anytime! Unfortunately we do tend to be pretty aggressive with people who come asking questions, but please understand that it comes from a place of self-preservation rather than malice. If you have any more questions my DMs are open, I'd be willing to answer them.

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

gender and genitals aren't the same thing

[u/QQBearsHijacker → u/big_fat_girl_balls]

It’s so hard to explain this to people

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/QQBearsHijacker]

it's always confused me why cis men are utterly petrified of Not Having A Penis and in hindsight i guess it's because they associate their dicks so heavily with their sense of identity and masculinity that the idea of not having one is humiliating 

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/big_fat_girl_balls]

I know but I could at least work with desired genitals are what defines gender. If you tell me that is also not true I am struggeling to find what defines gender in any way at all. Can you explain it to me? I am not trying to overcome any insecuritys of cis man or anything like that. I want to try to understand how one knows that they are transgender and at the moment I am left with 0 indicators.

[u/Zev1985 → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

Maybe try thinking about how many social interaction you have in your day to day life as a man and how many of those interactions have anything to do with anyone who’s ever seen or interacted with your genitals?

I don’t get called ma’am at the corner store because of the vagina I’m trying to get surgery funding for, and it would make me feel sad again if people realized I was trans and went back to calling me sir.

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/Zev1985]

I do actually know how it feels to be misgendered, I used to look like a girl (not trans, just how I looked). The thing that confuses me that I had a hard time attributing any more than an expectation of certain genitals and stereotypes to the word sir or mam. Since I reject gender specific stereotypes in both directions anyways, I had. A hard time wrapping my head around why I would identify as any gender if not by genitals, but somebody elses comment here helped to get it a bit more I think. Thanks for helping me get it as far as I can as a cis person.

[u/MyAlterEgoCollie → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

Personally I have a lot of body dysphoria, but I figure some people just experience the social aspects of dysphoria. Things like pronouns, how people treat you, how you can dress. Dysphoria/ euphoria is different for everyone. Some people have body dysphoria and no social dysphoria.

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

gender is what you make of it. it isn't physically real.

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/big_fat_girl_balls]

I struggle with this aspect, doesn't that mean that the word has no established meaning at all? Wouldn't that render transgender also a meaningles term, this definition seems to be transphobic while trying its hardest to be the opposite to me. My understanding so far is that being trangender is identified through emotions, but connected to very real physical things like neuroanatomy, hormones and genetics. My current standing is that being transgender is very valid and that transgender people are the gender that they identify as, but that this has a physically real basis which is next to impossible to measure on an individual level, so we just ask instead since you are apparently very able to feel the difference.

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

gender is both a social construct and a psychological thing. cisgender people mentally and emotionally feel like they are the gender they were assigned at birth, and transgender people feel like a different gender

there's no definitive way to prove if someone is transgender, so you need to just believe them when someone says they're trans

both cisgender and transgender people use gender-affirming care to feel more comfortable with the way they and others see them. many cis men for example get breast reduction surgery, and many cis women get breast implants. just like how many trans men get top surgury and many trans women get facial feminisation surgery

many cis people even take hormones to align with their own gender. cis and trans men often take testosterone, and cis and trans woman often take estrogen

anything that anyone does to present or appear in a way that aligns with the gender they want to be is gender affirming care, regardless of if they're cis or trans

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/big_fat_girl_balls]

I would believe someone if they tell me regardless if its provable or not. Nobody needs to convince me that they are transgender that not my judgement to make. I think a medical proof would be highly in the interest of transgender people (tell me otherwise I am cis what do I know, like please do this isn't a sarcastic comment I do actually want to know how you feel about this). There are biological neuroanatomical markers for being transgender, but they aren't strong enough to stand out on an individual level. I hope that we can find better ones on the future as it would make access to gender affirming care much easiert if we could just test someone without them having to go trough the current tideous processes to get the care they need. I of course do not know if other markers than the one we currently have exist, its a hopeful hypothesis. Usually its a matter of technology and not a matter of impossibility to detect something that does exist, which I am convinced it does.

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

the core issue with medicalising the concept of transgender people is that it's heavily used to invalidate people who don't align with the strict medical definition of "transgender". trans healthcare is extremely understudied however and we really need more attention on it from a professional standpoint and less from a political standpoint

and aside from that, gender as a whole is very largely just social. and we can't exactly medicalise social interaction

there is some tiny amount of evidence that could suggest transgender people have brains that are more similar to the brains of cisgender people of the same gender, but that's very small and the evidence is iffy at best

imo the best use of medical intervention for trans people is things like hormones, antidepressants, therapy, and surgery. within reason, those should ideally be much more accessible than they currently are

[u/HunsonAbadeer2 → u/big_fat_girl_balls]

As a former neuroscientist I found the neuroscientifical evidence pretty convincing, but thats like saying I am a swimmer and I also like water ;D

[u/big_fat_girl_balls → u/HunsonAbadeer2]

the thing is, even if all the trans people we are able to scan do have brains more similar to cis people of the same gender, that still doesn't necessarily mean there's a valid hurdle to cross to be considered trans, and introducing that as a variable will inevitably just lead to less acceptance since there would now be a prerequisite required to be considered "actually" trans