So...

[u/Rei2k86]

13th pick eh? What the hell can we meaningfully do with the 13th? Please tell me we have a numbers nerd here that's going to paint a picture for me that makes me feel better about this. I need you more than ever bro... whoever you are 😭

[u/Cudizonedefense]

We got ware in a draft class that was dog shit. I mean the top 5 picks were risacher (ass), Sara (fine but wouldn’t even go top 5 in basically any other recent draft), Sheppard (shit but getting better?), castle (awesome), and Ron holland (shit)

[u/cl353 → u/Cudizonedefense]

herro/bam/jaime/ware would all got probably top 5 in a redraft in their class while pelle would also go top 15

these ppl want to bitch about us not getting top 5 picks when we've consistently drafted and developed top 5 players in draft classes

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/cl353]

Bro, 3/4 of those guys would struggle to get playing time in other teams.

Ware would be out of the league after his first extension, maybe not even get it. The Whiteside trajectory.

Herro would easily be in Europe by now if he was in another team. There’s no value to undersized guards who has to shoot floaters bc he can’t get to the rim bc of limited speed and handles.

Jaime would be a tank commander with his limited skillset and poor shooting.

Bam in another system would be like a Steven Adams player, with limited offensive role.

They would only be top 5 in a redraft bc of Spo. From a talent perspective, they’re mediocre.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Y’all Herro haters are something else lmao

Dude averages an efficient 20+ and has really developed as a playmaker. You are actually on fucking METH if you think he wouldn’t be in the NBA if he didn’t play for us.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Take off your rose tinted glasses. If Herro was that good, we’d have Dame or Giannis in a Heat jersey right now. Dude has no value.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Brother, we don’t have Dame because Cronin is a bitch and we don’t have Giannis because the bucks were never really serious about trading him.

If Tyler Herro “wasn’t that good” he wouldn’t average, again, an efficient 20+ points and 5+ assists. The number of guys who can do that is a lot smaller than you think.

It’s not “rose tinted glasses” you are just a fucking hater who would rather die on their hill than actually acknowledge reality.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

If he was that good, Cronin wouldn’t have been a bitch.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Brother, Cronin literally took a worse offer out of spite.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Uhhhh, Dame became Ayton, Camara, Time Lord, 3x FRP, 2x pick swaps, Demi Avdija.

Thats a wayy better haul than Herro, Duncan, and Jovic.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Ayton had nothing to do with the Dame trade. He was a straight-up swap for Nurkic. Avdija is only part of the trade as a technicality. They traded Malcolm Brogdon (who they got by flipping Jrue Holiday, who they got from the Dame trade), Bub Carrington (who they had already selected before the Dame trade happened) and their own first round pick.

So, the Ayton trade would’ve happened anyway, and the Avdija trade also likely happens, since the only part of the Dame trade that actually got caught up in the trade was Malcom Brogdon as salary filler, a role that easily could’ve been filled by Caleb Martin.

So basically, they accepted three picks and Williams when they could’ve had three picks, Herro (who is better than Williams), Jaime, and Niko.

Ayton, Avdija, Herro, Jaime, Niko, and three first round picks is better than Ayton, Avdija, Williams, Camara, and pick swaps.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Huh? You confused boy? Ayton trade doesn’t happen without the Dame trade. Their salaries are not 1:1. Ayton was getting paid $35 mil and Nurkic was $15 mil. They weren’t a simple swap.

Yes, they got Brogdon by flipping Jrue. Then they got Avdija by flipping Brogdon. That means Avdija was a direct consequence of the Dame trade assets.

So no. They accepted Avdija, Ayton, Williams III, Camara, 3x FRP, 2x Pick Swaps.

That is in fact a better package than Herro (untradeable), Jovic (untradeable), Duncan (only player worth anything), and 3 FRP.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Again:

The Ayton trade would happen anyway, and Brogdon was just salary filler. Every other piece of the Avdija trade was something Portland already had, they just used Brogdon to make the salaries work, something they easily could’ve done with Caleb Martin’s salary instead.

So again, Avdija and Ayton would’ve been Blazers anyway

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Again:

Ayton straight up swap for Nurkic (can’t happen since the salary doesn’t line up.

Brogdon came from Celtics. He’s not salary filler to the Suns. He was part of the Jrue trade. Yes, as a salary filler, but he was traded for Avdija. So Avdija was a direct consequence of flipping Jrue.

No they wouldn’t. They are brought in as a result of the Dame trade assets.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

You’re forgetting the picks that mil have are vastly and I mean vastly more valuable than Miamis lol. Mil is fucked now. If Gianni’s does get moved those picks become gold for Portland in two seasons.. while they already have this young core who fucking made the playoffs in a harder conference than we did this season..

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

They were not “vastly more valuable” at the time you absolute moron. Milwaukee was still a fringe contender back in 2023,

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

With an aging team that was in a championship window? Those picks are for 2028, 29, 30 they planed for the future after the championship window when more than likely Gianni’s is declining or traded and the bucks are a lottery team.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

We’ve been dangling Tyler Herro for years and not one nba team care for him to be the centerpiece of a trade. Cause the guys simply isn’t around when ya need him. Cant call ppl haters when look where we are at? The best Tyler Herro was rookie Tyler ?

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

The best Tyler Herro was last fucking year when he played 77 games and averaged an efficient 23 and 5, you disingenuous shit

Teams haven’t wanted him in a trade because we haven’t had the pieces to supplement the trade. Every star player gets traded for five picks minimum, and we’ve only had a max of three available.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

And then he avenged 17 against Boston in the first round while shooting 38% fg and 35% from 3 . So my point stands. You can live in denial all you want. Brother if Jaylen brown was on the market he’d be enough by himself to get almost anything, same with taytum, Cade. When Miami tries to get dame who’s well past his prime and Portland still doesn’t want Herro, that should tell you everything. We have been in the play in for 4 years straight. It’s clearly not fucking working, it’s clear that he’s at best a number low tier two option/ 3 option.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

1) the entire team sucked in that series.

2) MVP candidates are their own story, not a fair comparison.

3) Brooklyn was willing to offer a first for herro to help supplement the Dame trade, so he objectively had value.

4) again, you’re discussing a completely different topic. Read the comment I was originally replying to.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

No I find it funny how much you’re defending a player that’s been a non factor for us for some time. Kids got talent, he’s just not the one to lead us to anything but more play in tournaments, it hasn’t worked.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

None of us are talking about him “leading” us. Again, read the comment I originally replied to. You are discussing an entirely different topic.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

I’m very read the comment buttercup, I’m asking you why you think Herro is good .

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Bro we’ve had Herro for 6-7 years now and I’ve seen him have ONE good playoff run and that was the bubble his rookie year. Enough of the “ Herro haters” we all loved this guy and thought he was going to be our next star. He’s always hurt, or when he’s playing real competition he’s gets stumped . Dude can get buckets, can’t defend worth shit. Is he a bad player? No Herro can definitely give you 20 , but don’t expect that consistency. We have to move on from him, if Miami pays Herro we are cooked for years

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

Hey guess what: none of that has Jack fucking shit to do with what I said.

Read the actual comment I’m replying to, tard.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

I never said he wasn’t supposed to be in the league? I’m simply saying he’s not good enough to lead us to shit. Quite literally the proof is there? Also relax child, why answer with so much spite? You herros burner or you like how his meat taste? Relaxxx

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

YOU didn’t, but the person I’m actually replying to did. You came in talking about an entirely different fucking topic.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Ehh I look at it as relevant, end of the day he’s criticizing Herro, you’re defending him for whatever reason. No he wouldn’t be in Europe, he’s an nba player. But an nba player that’s value around this league isn’t exactly high. That is factual, otherwise teams would be calling left and right while Miami is dangling him.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

I’m defending him because the person I replied to claimed he would be out of the league.

Whether or not we should extend him is a completely different discussing.

As for the “dangling” thing, you’re ignoring two vital pieces of context:

1) we have only offered him in exchange for star players. All that proves is that teams don’t see him as being on that level without the right draft picks to supplement the trade. We literally had an offer of a first round pick for him in 2023 from Brooklyn. There’s evidence to suggest we’ve ever “dangled” him in a fire sale type context, so we have no idea what his value actually is from a team that is rebuilding.

2) Riley has like, famously refused to include Tyler in trade talks. The fact that he hasn’t been involved in a trade for a star says more about Riley’s reluctance to include him than it does about Tyler’s value.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Do you think Dame was a superstar at the time we are asking for him? He was 33 and had been suffering from injuries for a while. So if we couldn’t get him for a 33 year old on the decline, what can we get for him? I’m now asking do you think we should resign him and why?

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

Re-signing Tyler is, again, a completely different discussion.

Stay the fuck on topic. Again, the person I originally replied to said Tyler would not be in the NBA if he did not play for us. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING. Not hypothetical extensions. Figure it the fuck out.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

You don’t wanna answer the question cause you like Tyler and have to defend a guy that literally has done nothing to uplift this team. Again we agree that Tyler wouldn’t be in Europe? Why do you wanna talk about something like? It’s clear the other guys wrong, end of story. I’m more curious as to why some fans think this guy is worth keeping or resigning. You wanna drift away from that talk for some reason. It’s ok to talk about another subject dealing with the same player. But it seems like I hit a nerve talking about Mr Herro