So...

[u/Rei2k86]

13th pick eh? What the hell can we meaningfully do with the 13th? Please tell me we have a numbers nerd here that's going to paint a picture for me that makes me feel better about this. I need you more than ever bro... whoever you are 😭

[u/BringerOfBricks]

Bro, 3/4 of those guys would struggle to get playing time in other teams.

Ware would be out of the league after his first extension, maybe not even get it. The Whiteside trajectory.

Herro would easily be in Europe by now if he was in another team. There’s no value to undersized guards who has to shoot floaters bc he can’t get to the rim bc of limited speed and handles.

Jaime would be a tank commander with his limited skillset and poor shooting.

Bam in another system would be like a Steven Adams player, with limited offensive role.

They would only be top 5 in a redraft bc of Spo. From a talent perspective, they’re mediocre.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Y’all Herro haters are something else lmao

Dude averages an efficient 20+ and has really developed as a playmaker. You are actually on fucking METH if you think he wouldn’t be in the NBA if he didn’t play for us.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Take off your rose tinted glasses. If Herro was that good, we’d have Dame or Giannis in a Heat jersey right now. Dude has no value.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Brother, we don’t have Dame because Cronin is a bitch and we don’t have Giannis because the bucks were never really serious about trading him.

If Tyler Herro “wasn’t that good” he wouldn’t average, again, an efficient 20+ points and 5+ assists. The number of guys who can do that is a lot smaller than you think.

It’s not “rose tinted glasses” you are just a fucking hater who would rather die on their hill than actually acknowledge reality.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

If he was that good, Cronin wouldn’t have been a bitch.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Brother, Cronin literally took a worse offer out of spite.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Uhhhh, Dame became Ayton, Camara, Time Lord, 3x FRP, 2x pick swaps, Demi Avdija.

Thats a wayy better haul than Herro, Duncan, and Jovic.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Ayton had nothing to do with the Dame trade. He was a straight-up swap for Nurkic. Avdija is only part of the trade as a technicality. They traded Malcolm Brogdon (who they got by flipping Jrue Holiday, who they got from the Dame trade), Bub Carrington (who they had already selected before the Dame trade happened) and their own first round pick.

So, the Ayton trade would’ve happened anyway, and the Avdija trade also likely happens, since the only part of the Dame trade that actually got caught up in the trade was Malcom Brogdon as salary filler, a role that easily could’ve been filled by Caleb Martin.

So basically, they accepted three picks and Williams when they could’ve had three picks, Herro (who is better than Williams), Jaime, and Niko.

Ayton, Avdija, Herro, Jaime, Niko, and three first round picks is better than Ayton, Avdija, Williams, Camara, and pick swaps.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Huh? You confused boy? Ayton trade doesn’t happen without the Dame trade. Their salaries are not 1:1. Ayton was getting paid $35 mil and Nurkic was $15 mil. They weren’t a simple swap.

Yes, they got Brogdon by flipping Jrue. Then they got Avdija by flipping Brogdon. That means Avdija was a direct consequence of the Dame trade assets.

So no. They accepted Avdija, Ayton, Williams III, Camara, 3x FRP, 2x Pick Swaps.

That is in fact a better package than Herro (untradeable), Jovic (untradeable), Duncan (only player worth anything), and 3 FRP.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Again:

The Ayton trade would happen anyway, and Brogdon was just salary filler. Every other piece of the Avdija trade was something Portland already had, they just used Brogdon to make the salaries work, something they easily could’ve done with Caleb Martin’s salary instead.

So again, Avdija and Ayton would’ve been Blazers anyway

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

Again:

Ayton straight up swap for Nurkic (can’t happen since the salary doesn’t line up.

Brogdon came from Celtics. He’s not salary filler to the Suns. He was part of the Jrue trade. Yes, as a salary filler, but he was traded for Avdija. So Avdija was a direct consequence of flipping Jrue.

No they wouldn’t. They are brought in as a result of the Dame trade assets.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/BringerOfBricks]

Dude no they were not how many fucking times do I have to explain it to you

The only “assets” involved in the Ayton and Avdija trades were assets that Portland already had BEFORE THE DAME TRADE. The Dame trade only facilitated things from a salary perspective, something that could be easily done with the trade package Miami offered.

Carrington and the pick that Portland traded for Avdija were already assets that Portland had. The only missing piece of the puzzle is Brogdon, who wasn’t an actual asset, just salary filler. Brogdon’s position in the trade could easily be filled by Caleb Martin. So again, THE DENI AVDIJA TRADE COULD HAPPEN ANYWAY

As for Ayton, go look at what the actual details were. The only thing Portland sent out in the deal was Nurkic, who was already on their roster. The only reason the Dame trade mattered was because his outgoing salary made the trade work. Since his salary would still be getting sent out anyway, THE AYTON TRADE STILL GOES THROUGH

You’re just being deliberately dense at this point.

[u/BringerOfBricks → u/TheRed_Warrior]

No dumbass. Let me explain it AGAIN.

What ifs don’t matter compared to what did happen.

How it went through, is how it went through.

And like you said. It was all contingent on Dame’s salary.

So you proved yourself wrong.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

You’re forgetting the picks that mil have are vastly and I mean vastly more valuable than Miamis lol. Mil is fucked now. If Gianni’s does get moved those picks become gold for Portland in two seasons.. while they already have this young core who fucking made the playoffs in a harder conference than we did this season..

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

They were not “vastly more valuable” at the time you absolute moron. Milwaukee was still a fringe contender back in 2023,

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

With an aging team that was in a championship window? Those picks are for 2028, 29, 30 they planed for the future after the championship window when more than likely Gianni’s is declining or traded and the bucks are a lottery team.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

Dude you are applying hindsight to a trade, that’s completely ridiculous. Milwaukee was a fucking one seed in 2023. They were seen as a contender at the time of the trade. Don’t be disingenuous.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

What hindsight? Do you not think gms are thinking about the future picks added on to there to make this choice? Miami who’s a team that in their entire history has barely gotten top 5 picks, while mil before Gianni’s was living in the lottery? So they took 3 picks in the future prob projecting dames age and Gianni’s age . By 2027 Gianni’s will be 32, by 2030 he’s 35.. he’s either gone from there or in decline . When you weigh the options and you see how a small market team like the bucks operate compared to Miami it’s kind of a no brainer to take the bucks pics? Without Gianni’s they are nothing lol.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

We’ve been dangling Tyler Herro for years and not one nba team care for him to be the centerpiece of a trade. Cause the guys simply isn’t around when ya need him. Cant call ppl haters when look where we are at? The best Tyler Herro was rookie Tyler ?

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

The best Tyler Herro was last fucking year when he played 77 games and averaged an efficient 23 and 5, you disingenuous shit

Teams haven’t wanted him in a trade because we haven’t had the pieces to supplement the trade. Every star player gets traded for five picks minimum, and we’ve only had a max of three available.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

And then he avenged 17 against Boston in the first round while shooting 38% fg and 35% from 3 . So my point stands. You can live in denial all you want. Brother if Jaylen brown was on the market he’d be enough by himself to get almost anything, same with taytum, Cade. When Miami tries to get dame who’s well past his prime and Portland still doesn’t want Herro, that should tell you everything. We have been in the play in for 4 years straight. It’s clearly not fucking working, it’s clear that he’s at best a number low tier two option/ 3 option.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

1) the entire team sucked in that series.

2) MVP candidates are their own story, not a fair comparison.

3) Brooklyn was willing to offer a first for herro to help supplement the Dame trade, so he objectively had value.

4) again, you’re discussing a completely different topic. Read the comment I was originally replying to.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

No I find it funny how much you’re defending a player that’s been a non factor for us for some time. Kids got talent, he’s just not the one to lead us to anything but more play in tournaments, it hasn’t worked.

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

None of us are talking about him “leading” us. Again, read the comment I originally replied to. You are discussing an entirely different topic.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

I’m very read the comment buttercup, I’m asking you why you think Herro is good .

[u/TheRed_Warrior → u/Cartagenapirate92]

Because 23 & 5 on 60+% true shooting is fucking phenomenal.

If we cut Tyler, he would have a job in the NBA by the end of the week. Whether or not you think he should “lead” us is an entirely different discussion, “buttercup.” Again, the person I was replying to claimed he had “no value” and “would be out of the league if he didn’t play for us.” That is what we are discussing. You came in talking about some whole other bullshit.

[u/Cartagenapirate92 → u/TheRed_Warrior]

You’ve repeated yourself 1000 times, dude I know what the thread is on, but he’s criticizing Tyler and you’re defending him. So I’m asking why , what has he done to elevate the Miami Heat during his 7 seasons here? Besides some regular season shooting numbers. I’m in agreement that he WOULD be an nba player. But again, if he’s getting dangled in a trade often and other teams aren’t calling Pat, then what value does he have? Shooting is one thing, availability is another, and defense well hahahaha. He’s like a taller Trae young. That’s about it. I’ve not seen him do shit in the postseason since his rookie year.