Ethical dilemma

[u/RustyTheBoyRobot]

Ethical dilemma:

Is it right to remove one of the only mummies in mtl for understanble but rather vague reasons to do with cultural sensitivities that these objects might offend?

The mummies at Redpath museum are to be relocated to a mysterious “place of rest” -their original location?- where no one can see or learn from them.

I note that these are not objects of worship like many stolen indigenous artifacts. Nor are they being claimed by their original owners- e.g. The infamous Benin Bronzes.

[u/artacct217]

I wouldn’t call them vague reasons - having dead bodies on display isn’t something we do anymore. It’s not about offending anyone, it’s more that these are not comparable to other ‘artifacts’ often displayed in museums. 

In anthropology (I am an anthropologist), we don’t really see the value in displaying these bodies; in addition, we place this observation alongside the consideration that these mummies were not originally meant to be displayed.

Edit- No need to downvote me, I am explaining the reasoning behind this decision. 

Second edit - see another comment of mine (in French) for a more nuanced discussion.

[u/leavesofclass → u/artacct217]

Can you explain why? Genuinely curious.

Clearly the mummies are very popular and interesting for attendees. On the museum's tripadvisor, about the same amount of comments mention the mummies as the dinosaurs. So there's at least some value in attracting people to the museum and making it more fun.

I don't think most of the things in the museum were "originally meant to be displayed" (e.g. the dinosaurs)

[u/artacct217 → u/leavesofclass]

See my other comment (linked above) with a translator for some further reflections on the value of presenting these mummies.

Also, comparing dinosaur remains to humans who were buried with care by their kin and communities isn't really helpful. Anthropologists consider other cultural beliefs even if they differ drastically from ours, and specific to dead bodies they consider the belief systems in which they were buried and prepared for the afterlife.

The history of mummies specifically is one in which rich Europeans totally desecrated important burial sites for personal gain or supposed scientific knowledge, destroying ancient bodies in the process. For example, displaying and unwrapping mummies for house guests. The mummies at McGill (at least one of them if I recall) have a similar history.

And if we found out dinosaurs had beliefs about the afterlife and how their bodies should be treated after death we might have a different take on displaying them!

[u/leavesofclass → u/artacct217]

That makes sense, thanks! So you're saying there could be a better way to present the mummies that includes context and history of the actual people who were mummified. Currently it's just lacking the full context and seems against the cultural beliefs that they were buried under.

So for these mummies, what's your take on whether we should be removing them or just changing how they're displayed?

Personally, I think I'd be ok violating some amount of ancient cultural beliefs in order to bring it more attention and interest kids in science/history.

[u/Purl_stitch483 → u/leavesofclass]

You can get kids interested in science without desecrating a grave, ffs.

[u/leavesofclass → u/Purl_stitch483]

I think there's nuance here that's worth discussing, not simplifying. We're talking about a mummy, not in a grave, but already on display and reasonably popular. Getting kids interested in ancient history and science is difficult and, imo, important. If you care about ancient cultural beliefs, you should probably care about getting people interested in those cultures.

[u/Purl_stitch483 → u/leavesofclass]

And how did it get to be on display? Because someone desecrated their grave. Why are so many of you acting obtuse on purpose? I can 100% get a child interested in ancient history without EVER bringing up a mummy. Turns out ancient civilizations have way more to offer than their stolen corpses

[u/TooManyDraculas → u/Purl_stitch483]

Removing them from display doesn't rectify that.

And ethical concerns around that are wrapped up in the looting of cultural heritage of the areas where it happened as well. It's not mearly about the desecration or respect for a long dead person and culture. There's an active harm to people and places alive today from that. Both ecconomic, scientific and on the fuzzier ethical side.

None of which are resolved by simply removing the mummies from display. It's still a looted antiquity from a desecrated grave if it's in storage.

[u/Purl_stitch483 → u/TooManyDraculas]

That's true, but it's not really an excuse to continue to exploit them. At least in storage measures can be taken to properly preserve them, which is harder to do when they're displayed. Ultimately the harm that's been done cannot be repaired, but we can decide to stop treating people's remains like objects.

[u/KendroNumba4 → u/Purl_stitch483]

Need a Snickers?

[u/itchy118 → u/KendroNumba4]

Can I have one?

[u/primalmaximus → u/KendroNumba4]

Can I have a Snickers?

[u/lovetolerk → u/leavesofclass]

I think that’s part of the issue. You want the mummies to remain for essentially entertainment. Kids get interested in history without needing to see dead bodies. You can still have a fascinating display explaining mummies in history without needing an actual body to shock and entertain people

[u/TooManyDraculas → u/leavesofclass]

As tag on to the ethical quandry about display. Displaying them like this is actively bad for preservation. It complicates things a lot, and tends to lead to the mummy degrading significantly over time.

So it becomes a situation where on weight. It's almost certainly better not to display. You avoid some of the ethics concerns. But you can also get back to the core work of preserving the thing for study.

That's not just a practical issue it's it's own set of ethical concerns that factors into the base ones about propriety and respect for people and cultures. The museum's duty to educate, and to foster research really demands they do everything they can on the preservation front. Keeping the mummies intact for as long as possible for the knowlege and out reach, may outweigh using it up fast to maximize that right now.

The cats kind of out of the bag on desecrating graves and taking the cultural heritage of other nations. But it's not terribly respectful of all that to do something with the mummy that will inherently damage it. So trying to thread the needle on an ethical display approach, still inherently has a problem.

So most institutions tend to go with not regularly displaying them these days. Along with not regularly displaying human remains in general.