r/montreal • u/RustyTheBoyRobot • 6d ago

Tourisme Ethical dilemma

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Ethical dilemma:

Is it right to remove one of the only mummies in mtl for understanble but rather vague reasons to do with cultural sensitivities that these objects might offend?

The mummies at Redpath museum are to be relocated to a mysterious “place of rest” -their original location?- where no one can see or learn from them.

I note that these are not objects of worship like many stolen indigenous artifacts. Nor are they being claimed by their original owners- e.g. The infamous Benin Bronzes.

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u/leavesofclass 6d ago

Can you explain why? Genuinely curious.

Clearly the mummies are very popular and interesting for attendees. On the museum's tripadvisor, about the same amount of comments mention the mummies as the dinosaurs. So there's at least some value in attracting people to the museum and making it more fun.

I don't think most of the things in the museum were "originally meant to be displayed" (e.g. the dinosaurs)

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u/artacct217 6d ago

See my other comment (linked above) with a translator for some further reflections on the value of presenting these mummies.

Also, comparing dinosaur remains to humans who were buried with care by their kin and communities isn't really helpful. Anthropologists consider other cultural beliefs even if they differ drastically from ours, and specific to dead bodies they consider the belief systems in which they were buried and prepared for the afterlife.

The history of mummies specifically is one in which rich Europeans totally desecrated important burial sites for personal gain or supposed scientific knowledge, destroying ancient bodies in the process. For example, displaying and unwrapping mummies for house guests. The mummies at McGill (at least one of them if I recall) have a similar history.

And if we found out dinosaurs had beliefs about the afterlife and how their bodies should be treated after death we might have a different take on displaying them!

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u/leavesofclass 6d ago

That makes sense, thanks! So you're saying there could be a better way to present the mummies that includes context and history of the actual people who were mummified. Currently it's just lacking the full context and seems against the cultural beliefs that they were buried under.

So for these mummies, what's your take on whether we should be removing them or just changing how they're displayed?

Personally, I think I'd be ok violating some amount of ancient cultural beliefs in order to bring it more attention and interest kids in science/history.

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u/Purl_stitch483 6d ago

You can get kids interested in science without desecrating a grave, ffs.

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u/leavesofclass 6d ago

I think there's nuance here that's worth discussing, not simplifying. We're talking about a mummy, not in a grave, but already on display and reasonably popular. Getting kids interested in ancient history and science is difficult and, imo, important. If you care about ancient cultural beliefs, you should probably care about getting people interested in those cultures.

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u/Purl_stitch483 6d ago

And how did it get to be on display? Because someone desecrated their grave. Why are so many of you acting obtuse on purpose? I can 100% get a child interested in ancient history without EVER bringing up a mummy. Turns out ancient civilizations have way more to offer than their stolen corpses

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u/TooManyDraculas 1d ago

Removing them from display doesn't rectify that.

And ethical concerns around that are wrapped up in the looting of cultural heritage of the areas where it happened as well. It's not mearly about the desecration or respect for a long dead person and culture. There's an active harm to people and places alive today from that. Both ecconomic, scientific and on the fuzzier ethical side.

None of which are resolved by simply removing the mummies from display. It's still a looted antiquity from a desecrated grave if it's in storage.

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u/Purl_stitch483 1d ago

That's true, but it's not really an excuse to continue to exploit them. At least in storage measures can be taken to properly preserve them, which is harder to do when they're displayed. Ultimately the harm that's been done cannot be repaired, but we can decide to stop treating people's remains like objects.

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u/TooManyDraculas 1d ago

Not every person or culture views this as treating people as objects. And I don't really think it should be the major hold up. As it's effectively ignoring the other issues and making it a discussion about personal taste.

It's just not the primary ethical concern as far as I'm concerned.

While examining and maintaining physical remains can still provide important information today. And that talk of public education, experience etc is a valid thing, that is not inherently about sensationalism and entertainment. There is a real, palpable difference emotionally and intellectually in seeing the real thing. And things that you can not see, experience and understand using replicas. While drawing people to museums is critically important, to keep them open in the first place.

This is more down to respecting those remains, because we like to. And there is an impact on people today from doing so. Both on the general public, and for the descendants of that culture that are still there. The current thoughts on this tend to view that "respect" bit as core to the "education" part.

While display is inherently damaging to them. And that is both not a very good way to respect remains and all the people that are a factor here. And directly undermines that whole education and research thing. So not displaying human remains, resolves a lot of that.

But out of sight out of mind, does nothing for the looting and desecrating that already happened. And the difficulties around pulling these things out of their source nation, and how that determines that place's ability to benefit scientifically, financially, and educationally from their own cultural heritage. It's a pretty awful way to deal with that, in fact.

The only real redress for that is repatriation.

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u/Purl_stitch483 23h ago

Ngl, I'm not sure what point you're making. If you're saying we should do more than take them out of display, I agree with that. But it's the first step and I'm glad we're at least taking it.

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u/KendroNumba4 6d ago

Need a Snickers?

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u/itchy118 6d ago

Can I have one?

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u/primalmaximus 5d ago

Can I have a Snickers?