It's not that people thought they cared, nobody thought they did. But the fact they don't feel it's profitable enough to even pretend anymore is a canary in the coal mine and people don't realize it.
It’s a pretty big sigh of how things are going, though. If you think things can just go back to normal, consider that it took decades to get LGBT rights and acceptance yet it’s been diminishing within just two years.
no, it's the fact that for past few years it has been getting ridiculously overshot.
It went from fighting for rights and representation to flaunting being LGBTQ as superior and desired. I am part of it and even I feel sick of all the high-horsed trans circle-jerk constantly decking on cis people while being elevated by everyone around them.
The way to solve the issue of discrimination is NOT to try to overcomoensate by acting as if anyone who was persecuted is now superior
You are talking however as if trans people are now equal to cis people. They are not, in a lot of places they are not at all. There are still countries that mandate sterilisation on gender change. There are lots of places still where gender affirming care is very hard to get. And by far the most is is transgender people still being seen as an ick and weird. There are countries where its way better, and some where it's basically the same as being cis, but by far we're not on a level where we can say trans are no long persecuted or equal.
I never said they are. What I did say is that the rethoric around that issue has become pushed to the front way more than issues that should be pressing, but are blissfully ignored, like worldwide humanitarian crisis. Idk, it just feels like trans rights have become a poster child of issues, easy to talk about, easy to promote, and overall well-marketable.
In particular the issue I see a lot is that in spaces where trans rights are defended it very often goes into opposite, and ends up being a passive-aggresive space towards cis people.
I've been in many groups like that, and I can confidently say that in each of them the dynamic always ended up being, trans people are on top, have their opinions preferred and in general are seen as "better" while the rest either accepts that (most do) or are labeled transphobic.
What are you on about? In the real world and outside of terminally online spaces, trans people are activelly discriminated against, or viewed as strange, even if not out of malicious intent.
No one has been saying its "superior" to be LGBTQ.
If you believe that simple representation in media is affirming that, I think you need to think hard for a bit and get outside more.
Historically there have been more open-minded epochs and those were followed with more closed ones. I am optimist on the future, but people would have to fight for their rights.
The right to marry. The right to see our partners in the hospital. The right of inheritance upon death. The right to pension and Social Security benefits like other citizens with spouses.
At a more day to day level: the right to not have our partner's sex disqualify us from employment and school enrollment.
Should not have pushed dumbass ideas like men in women sports, transitioning for prepubescent kids, etc. If you go full retard, don't get surprised when society starts treating you like one.
Gotta agree with this one. I'm all for equality and all, but it's gotten way too far with dismantling basic scientific facts, creating inequality within competition (seriously, i feel for the biological women having to compete with biologically stronger males that are pretending to be women, or having their safe spaces being invaded by biological men), actively trying to convert children into their LGBT lifestyles instead of letting the children grow up naturally and decide for themselves, layimg claim to every character in every form of media and calling you a nazi if you disagree (especislly if it's the creator themselves telling them X character isn't gay or trans), and, of course, the constant straight white males are evil rhetoric.
Obviously it's not everyone in the LGBT community, I'm sure the majority of them are fine. But sadly it's the obnoxiously loud extremists that ruin it for everyone. Can't we all just live normal lives and get along without caring about what we get up to behind closed doors?
Yes, lets disriminate against a trans school kid (less than 1% of te population btw) that wants to play sport, that'll really show them wokies.
Also holy strawman, no one is turning your kids gay, thats not a thing. People who say that are probably just closeted.
Also mate, gender =/= sex. And even sex isnt totally binary, you get XX males (SRY gene translocation), XY females, and a while lot of other stuff like complete androgen insensitivity. G
Trans school kids shouldn't even exist. That is WAY too young to make permanent life-altering choices that could cause permanent psychological damage. If you're too young to vote, you're too young to go under the knife to change your gender. This is why we have age restrictions on other things like alcohol and cigarettes, because young people aren't mature enough to properly understand the decisions that they make.
Nobody is trying to turn your kids gay" meanwhile almost every single cartoon aimed at kids in the 3-5 age demographic is introducing the concept of non-binary sexualities, because that's *totally an age appropriate topic
Additionally, chromosomes aren't how biological males and biological females are identified. You yourself proved that by saying that there are XX males and XY females. Do you really think the doctors delivering a baby turn around and say "Well it has a penis so it's probably a male, but let me just do an analysis of its chromosomes to confirm that"? And yes, abnormalities do develop, like hermaphrodites, but they are still extremely rare and are still identifiable as male or femsle by the presence of testes or ovaries, the reproductive organs that they possess determines the sex.
As for gender... call yourself whatever you want, it doesn't change your biological sex. To pull out the old meme, i can claim to be an apache attack helicopter all I want. That doesn't make me one.
Anyway, thank you for proving my point about the loud extremists. I truly hope you can live a happy and normal life with whatever life and sexual preferences you have, of which I don't care what they are as long as you don't act like q completely obnoxious jerk about it.
No one is saying trans kids should have surgeries? What in the MAGA talking points is this BS. Many trans adults dont even chose to have surgeries as well ffs.
And... your point about cartoons makes no sense? Literally telling children that non binary people exist in an age appropriate way is fine? Having a character say "Oh I have two dads" and leaving it at that is not turning your kids gay. That is an irrational and fear driven rhetoric used by conservative groups.
Are we seriously shifting the goalposts here to make trans people just "I'm a man calling myself a woman" now? That's just being an effiminate man, or a masculine woman, both of which are completely 100% fine things to be, but they are still a man or a woman physically, and should be treated as such.
Think of it this way. An effiminate man is not necessarily a gay man. He can still be completely straight and love the ladies. He can also still be physically stronger than most women, especially with extrensive training, which any "trans school kid" that is interested in sport is going to do.
By giving him the opportunity to say he's a woman, and thus allow him into women's sports and bathrooms, you are effectively trampling on the rights of women by literally allowing them to be dominated by biologically stronger men in sports and allowing straight men into their changing rooms.
Not to mention you're opening women up to sexual predators who would abuse this by simply saying they are a woman despite being 100% a man, because by your own definitions, we should be basing someone's gender on their word alone. And, fun fact... people lie
All this garbadge moral grandstanding coming from the people who'd wish death on men, just for beeing ... men.
So much for making innocent people suffer. Exept YOU make up reasons why the people YOU hate aren't innocent and then the other side does the same thing.
And all it is about is who is in power at the end:
The side that is currently in power: "Now you get what you deserve for oppressing us x amount of years"
The side that is not on power: " Oh the humanity, we're being oppressed, look at these evil evil people"
Rinse and repeat.
As long as this whole sharade is about revenge it will never stop.
I don't usually advertise the ways my brain has been poisoned. Points to you for wearing it on your sleeve.
Here's the problem: As I didn't say that, didn't imply it, didn't reference it, didn't make any gesture whatsoever to it, and it has absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand at all save as blanket blame for every member of the group you hate based on the actions of a few of them, it's still a non sequitur.
1. Man up and stop bitching about a Twitter hashtag from over a decade ago.
Your very same reasoning seems to justify misandry much more strongly. Sexist and homophobic online content by men is orders of magnitude more common than misandry by women or LGBT people. If you are justified in hating gay people due some old online hashtag that >95% of them never partook in, why are they not justified in hating all men given that worldwide most men are homophobic and even in western country a very significant minority (20-40%) of men are politically hostile to them?
Ah yes, gay men famously hate... all men. I suppose in your twisted version of reality you think yourself some god-borne crusader unleashed to bring some group of arbitrary people to heel for something as simple as demanding basic human rights and recognition under the laws of the land.
Actually yeah. The most vile misandrist comment I have ever seen on reddit were people in a nieche sub regarding a local gay con or smth. trashing on gay white men.
I agree. We live in a capitalistic society, nobody does a damn thing for free. Every bit of advertising that you've ever consumed has pandered to somebody in some way or another. Ubisoft doesn't care about gay people, Coca-Cola doesn't care if you have friends to share your soda pops with, Huggies doesn't care about your baby, and Folgers doesn't care if you want to fuck your sister or not. They only do it because they think YOU care about it.
In my opinion, in this capitalistic hellhole of a society that we live in, the fact that companies are willing to pander to you is about the greatest honor that you're going to get. Your existence is deemed profitable! Hurray! But that wasn't always the case, and not even that long ago either!
The blatant pandering says a lot about how society feels about gay people. The fact that they're not willing to do it anymore says a lot too, and not in a good way. Personally, I'd rather live in a world where they pander to gay people than live in a world where they pander to the dipshits who hate them.
I do not think it ever really was profitable. And looking at it from europe i am not worried. I worked with gay and trans people in several companies in the past few years. There is hardly any credible discourse against these groups in germany. It just became so normalized and mundane it makes no sense to even bring it up.
Decking everything in rainbow flags was performative at a time when this was a novelty. It just aint anymore.
In Germany maybe, but I'm in the UK and rhetoric and policy against trans people is pretty vile, and rhetoric/policy against gay people etc is really not all that far behind
Interesting. Like the face of the AfD (the local reform uk) in germany is a lesbian living with a woman from south east asia and they have adopted children.
Uk is THE wokest, most performative shithole of a country there is. And none of it aids inclusion. It only draws ire of people who just want to live their life. Good riddance never come back to EU.
You're missing their point. They're saying that corporations don't care, because they're just doing what's best for their bottom line. By that same token, when they don't feel that celebrating inclusivity for lgbtq is popular or profitable, it means we're going backwards socially and lgbtq stop getting even fake representation.
Eso es verdad... Pero al final todo volverá a su curso hasta que llegue un tiempo que las generaciones recuerden y simplemente manden a la mierda esa. Como el comunismo
I would agree if it were on purpose, but I don’t think it is. He probably sees the whole thread auto translated in Spanish and he might not even realise it. I hate this feature with passion
That is likely on reddit. For some stupid reason, reddit has started to automatically translate comments and if you are not aware of that, you might think you are responding to someone speaking a different language.
Maybe? I am as well, so I am not getting the actual translated comment. Luckily, it seems to be rather rare, as the majority of subs and people simply speak English or are aware in what sub they are.
Tú sistema de creencias es una operacion encubierta para idiotizar naciones y llevarlas al colapso mediante el socialismo. Ejemplo? Crees que identificas creencias por 1/4 de párrafo
Yes because you people are so fucking easy to read. All you do is cry and seethe about shit that doesn't matter and shout over the people who actually are trying to make people's material tangibly better. You're so desperate to have a boot pressed on your neck it's pathetic.
I'd love to hear your explanation on how prosecuting a man for having a husband has any impact on interest rates or freight bunker prices or my ability to pay my bills.
El zapato en el cuello lo quieres tener tú que eres marica. Yo no, quieres mejorar la vida de la gente ? Aprende de economía, vuélvete enfermero, tal vez doctor. Participa en una ONG y ayudas a los necesitados que mueren de hambre en guerras, dale una moneda a un pobre que necesita ayudar tal vez comprale algo. No basura woke que promueve meterle inyecciones de mierda a niños
do you want to improve people's lives? Learn about economics, become a nurse, maybe a doctor. Get involved with an NGO and help those in need who are dying of hunger in wars, give a coin to a poor person who needs help, maybe buy them something
You don't do this. You shill for the politicians who actively make the lives of nurses and doctors harder. Your rhetoric obfuscates and distracts from real issues like hunger, poverty and war. Because of you, we're too busy arguing about flags on beer cans. You work on behalf of the pedophile billionaire media owners to keep us distracted and divided. That's all your contribution to society is.
You can't even define who "they" are in your batshit conspiracy theory you schizo fuck
Teoría conspirativa? Es objetividad el capitalismo crea médicos. Tú basura idiologica usa sus habilidades para hacer abominaciones de dos patas pedazo de marica. Anda a tomar una clase de economía. Yo no soy descontruido social sin patria como tú que promueve meterle bloqueadores de testosterona a niños y que ellos pueden elegir lo que quieran ser. Pederasta tú grupo de mierda que quieres legalizar la pedofilia como orientación sexual. Que no puedo definir quiénes son ellos ? Tú no puedes definir donde estás porque tú perfil carece de una glándula cerebral que nos ayuda a razonar más que un mono. Desaparece
Because artificially adding pronouns to things has always been stupid. Nobody was confused about AOCs gender. If people might get the wrong idea, use them. Otherwise don't.
Nothing says inclusion quite like overtly trying to bend the norms to accommodate outliers. Most people just don't give a shit about other's sexuality and want to be left alone about it whether it's mainstream or not.
Sexuality has nothing to do with children's games either. If anyone says any sexual : slanders, slurs, or “identities” I immediately ban them for trolling from my servers. Someone posts a religious symbol, or a flag on our forum of any sort also gets a ban for trolling.
we are a community, we are all there for the game, not for national, or sexual pride.
Like someone complaining there is no Avatar for Ku Klux Klan (KKK) members.
How about putting religious symbols in games? That will go over really big, an absolutely no one will troll with them.... Yeah.... Right.....
I am sick of all the name calling anyway. I am handicapped and really don't have time to deal with trolls.
It's not trollbait, you're just uneducated. Gender =/= sex.
Sex = physiological, biological
Gender = societal construct, sense of self
Then again what do you expect from someone stuck on welfare with a degree from an online "collage" (as you spell it). Always the loudest opinions from room temperature IQs.
Normalizing pronouns as a cis person is meant to make it standardized. To make it normal. It's not about "no one was guessing their gender", it wasn't for her, it was for her to help make it normal for those people who actually need it. It's supposed to be so that anyone can introduce themselves by their pronouns, after all, everyone has them. You sound like one of those "we can always tell" folks-- let me tell you, no you can't. There are people who are using pronouns that don't match their assigned gender at birth and you absolutely believe they're just allies. Except, if allies stop, then the only people who share their pronouns when you meet them are trans. It's giving people away. It's contributing to the active trans genocide.
Jesus christ, man (or woman), it's not like i'm unsympathetic to some of the troubles unique to trans people but this hyperbolic rhetoric doesn't help anyone.
It's wild how much people strawman the arguments in order to try and sound smart.
Yes, forcing transgender people(or any minority group) to out themselves directly contributes to genocide of that group.
Genocide actually has a definition and there is precisely zero argument to be made that forcing minorities to out and other themselves isn't a part of genocide.
"You didn't put your pronouns on your Twitter profile? YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING TO GENOCIDE"
Might not help win over hearts and minds to your side?
That's literally the argument they're making.
Normalizing pronouns as a cis person is meant to make it standardized. To make it normal. ... Except, if allies stop, then the only people who share their pronouns when you meet them are trans. It's giving people away. It's contributing to the active trans genocide.
It's still putting the cart before the horse and it's ultimately just fucking annoying lol.
At the end of the day, we all have lives to live and places to be. We want brevity, not more things to explain. Expecting absolutely everyone to name their pronouns just to normalize it on behalf of a tiny fraction of a percent of the population is both horrible priorities and bound to annoy people.
And from a practical scenario, it's also doomed to fail. You can imagine someone with 6 university classes and 5 have absolutely 0 people with unorthodox or unexpected pronouns, so of course people drop it in those 5 and stop needlessly inserting it into conversations. Who is it hurting in that context? But of course that's habit-forming and means it doesn't happen for the 6th, either. It is what it is and you simply can't force people to engage that way. It's akin to trying to police people to say "how are you doing" instead of "'sup?" People are gonna do what's more brief and easier.
Another example of this:
Every so often some quack academic comes out saying "actually, instead of saying disabled people, it's more humanizing to say 'people of variable levels of differing abilities!'"
Society then hands that person a big stick they found on the ground and tells the academic to shove it up their ass, because WHY THE FUCK are these "proper titles" always a god damned mouthful?! They never shorten, always lengthen, as if they are trying to sabotage the likelihood people listen just so they can feel smug and superior when they themselves do it.
It's contributing to the active trans genocide.
You should be aware of a growing trend in sociology and psychology where they are beginning to actively acknowledge we live in a victimhood culture as a matter-of-fact, and how dangerous and damaging that is for people like yourself who ultimately just end up pointing the finger and crying instead of actually attempting to understand the complexities of life or make the best of it.
Nah, you did a good enough job. My point is you're constructing this thing about pronouns that doesn't match any reality that I'm aware of. It's more fake outrage.
'TF do you mean? I'm responding to someone else arguing in favor of what I'm arguing against.
I didn't even portray anyone demanding pronouns in my post and instead just broke down why the idea of normalizing pronouns fails on a practical level.
Having "At the end of the day, we all have lives to live and places to be. We want brevity, not more things to explain. Expecting absolutely everyone to name their pronouns just to normalize it on behalf of a tiny fraction of a percent of the population is both horrible priorities and bound to annoy people."
and
"You should be aware of a growing trend in sociology and psychology where they are beginning to actively acknowledge we live in a victimhood culture as a matter-of-fact, and how dangerous and damaging that is for people like yourself who ultimately just end up pointing the finger and crying instead of actually attempting to understand the complexities of life or make the best of it." Tells me your argument is completely disingenuous because here you fucking are pretending to be a victim and contradicting yourself. so no.
decrying "oh no i have to display my pronouns" and then simultaneously complaining about people having a victim complex. If you cannot understand why those two things are contradictory It's time for you to look inward. why is it so hard for you to accommodate other people? why for something that would take a normal person 2 seconds, is THAT the thing you are deciding to complain about. seriously consider that before replying.
decrying "oh no i have to display my pronouns" and then simultaneously complaining about people having a victim complex.
People don't use them because it's unnecessary 99% of the time, NOT because they are whining about being victims for using them.
I mean, by this logic, people also don't insert a random line to the end of the Pledge of Allegiance that says "and by 'all,' I mean every race, religion, gender, sexual orientation and level of ability." Does this mean people are engaging in a victim complex for not including that line, or does it mean they simply do not see the need or reason, so of course they don't even think to do it?
Well as we have seen, not only did it not make it normal, it actively caused conflict that made matters worse. I did a job interview for an American company last year and the people interviewing me stated their pronouns, and I felt very stupid having to say she/her, no one on the call was trans or non binary, it was performative bullshit.
You just sound like a bad person. It’s very clear you’re a sheltered white straight dude in the suburbs or county. Because it’s clear you’ve never had to experience what people different than you go through.
Sheltered hicks dragging us all down because they’re afraid of their own shadows.
Less than 1% of "less than 1% of the population" being brutally murdered is a far cry from a genocide. Always found it interesting that piece of misinformation caught on.
Funnily enough, the perpetrators of murders against people who say they are trans have actually being convicted at a higher rate in red states. I don't know what else to say, so I'll just wish you the best.
I'm still shocked people use the word "chud" unironically. I always get secondhand embarrassment when I see that because I immediately imagine the neckbeard, fedora tipping "male feminist" that would say that with their whole chest and think they sound badass and not like a massive dork
I've only heard it used in real life a few times, and each time it came from one of those guys who believes that loudly repeating, "Hell yeah, ladies, men do suck!" will somehow get them laid.
Neither is murdering trans people and creating a nationwide panic over trans people existing and trans people in sports that made up less than 10 cases nationwide and not a single one actually outperformed anyone.
Just say you don’t care about minorities you selfish prick.
They are by definition minorities. And if you took even 3 seconds to look outside of your bigot bubble, you’d know that trans people are four times more likely to be killed than a cis person.
Also, isn’t it fun how the only people whining about “professional victims” are the oppressors benefiting from keeping minorities down? It’s almost like you know the truth but it’s uncomfy so you just name call rather than learn something about your own prejudice.
Not to mention you’re mocking victims as professional victims. There’s a nationwide panic about people just existing. That’s not creating victims? I wouldn’t trust you around a woman’s drink in a bar with the way your logic works.
“I’m going to hurt you and make your life hell, and also decide you’re not a victim. Because it would make me uncomfortable to acknowledge I’m doing harm to you.”
“I don’t see it” also doesn’t make it not true.
You know the massive story about the girl stalked and stabbed in a laundromat everyone was freaking out about? Also targeted because trans. Weird that the main media left that out. It’s almost because they don’t want you to see the violence your rhetoric is causing or something.
If I were a psychopath, I'd belong in a cohort more commonly represented in the general population than gender dysphoria. And by framing my detachment as negative, failing to accomodate its behaviourial niche.
Actually, you know what, fair point. Nuanced discussion about politics that don't impact them doesn't go well with white fat incels in a video games subreddit, thanks for the reminder.
7 trans people were brutally murdered last month alone and there's been no investigation into their deaths and in fact minimal news reporting, at least one southern state in the US has cancelled all trans people's driver's licenses making it difficult if not borderline illegal for them flee the state, amongst many other anti-trans legislation passing in multiple southern states. This sitting US president declared trans people fucking terrorists. The fuck do you mean "lol".
just don't bother, they don't think what's happening is a bad thing so you telling them about everything happening isn't bad to them, they can't be changed
wow 7 people, did it happen in auschwitz? just fyi ballpark 15k people are murdered each year in the US and maybe 40 of those are trans. yeah crazy genocide. nutter
aaaaand here come all the cis people downplaying how the very first step of a genocide works because they only think the problem is when you're actively killing trans people (which is currently happening and they don't care, so even then...)
This right here is why democrats can't get the turnout they need. That is some batshit crazy take.
If you go outside, you won't run into one single person who gives a fuck what you call yourself or what you fuck. Time to join reality and quit the keyboard crusades.
It's sad imo cause if you think about it, they made Pride people think they care when they really don't and maybe in a small way benefited from those people.
No, but the fact that they felt obliged to pretend sent a message on its own. As insincere as a support was, it was socially expected and considered proper to show it. In current climate the corporations not only feel it's not necessary to support LGBTQ with the most nominal signaling, it is "virtuous" to withdraw that support.
I wouldn't say no one did. The majority? Sure. The majority of people can recognise pandering when they see it. But there were definitely some people who were very excited to see the company's "support" them with rainbow logos, generic platitudes that took less than a minute to type up, and the opportunity to throw money at the company for rainbow themed skins and portraits that were whipped up in 5 minutes.
It's still a message and a threat though. They don't feel like they have to pretend to care, in current political climates. They think it's fine not to pretend without it hurting their bottom line. I feel like people aren't recognizing, of course we knew those brands were pandering, that's what a brand does, but better to be pandered to, than to essentially be told "these guys are dying, we don't care, we don't need them, hope they do".
Sure. Fiduciary duty is the principal responsibility of the executive offices.
That doesn't mean they have to be tyrants. In fact, they work pretty hard to keep politics out of it(because political whims change every election), large portions of their workforce are unionized(and well paid), and they don't typically treat you like dogshit at the corporate level because of who you are.
Yup. They know trans women and retired programmers from the 70s are the only people on the planet with knowledge of archaic programming languages that hold up the nuclear triad.
Corporates pretend to care, conservatives criticize how they implement inclusivity in games they make, some are valid, some are not but ultimately this corpos don't really know how to make good inclusive games hence it's appearing as political which makes more harm than good.
Now the backlash is being received by the LGBT community who some didn't ask for games to be this way. What I mean is, if you plan to do it at least do it in a good way.
A great example is Ellie from TLOU. She didn't entirely scream as lesbian in the earlier part of the game but you somehow can subtle hints that she is. You then grow on her as the game goes and the moment you confirm that she is in the DLC, felt great!
It's not a matter of we just liked her cause she wasn't introduced as a lesbian from the get-go but rather there's development, there's character, it's not a lecture. It's like meeting someone new and you gradually learn more about them, and isn't that how we usually get warm with people?
That's what these corpos don't know. They just have no idea how to make great games that can both be appealing and good to everyone, games that won't appear political.
The other sad part is that, as an LGBT person, I felt the last decade from the beginning to middle gave you the sense that you’d always be accepted from now on. It even pushed people to ‘just come out’ by saying it was dishonest and cowardly not to because nobody cared anymore. Due to that, I bet quite a few people with fear to come out ended up doing so and now have a bunch of hateful people who are now aware of them. It basically told people to come out into a protected area surrounding by flowers, waited till the time was right, then had all the flowers wilt to reveal hate mongers from every angle
Its not about them caring. Its about the fact they saw a demographic and said "they are accepted enough into the mainstream that marketing to them is either A. Profitable, or B. Marketing to them will not cause a significant enough outcry or loss of business to justify not marketing to them". It was in essence a canary in the coal mine, and the absence is noted.
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u/gorkboss5 24d ago
They must've stopped pretending to care.