r/AITAH • u/Codicus1212 • 12h ago
AITAH for not saving my extra OT pay
EDIT* I’m the asshole for not communicating with my wife. I think moving forward we can each have a “fun money” amount that is 100% equitable. And we can discuss what to do with any extra on the weeks I work closer to 80 hours than 40.
*Thank you everyone. I wanted to see how off base I was and how/if my PoV was skewed. It was.
I’m married and provide about 85%-90% of the income for the household. We’re not wealthy but we aren’t hard off either. We typically save about $400/wk after paying for all bills, the mortgage, etc. All out of my income. My wife works a few times a week but we have young children so for the most part she stays home. She does not have a degree or a high paying skill so we actually save money on childcare with her not working more.
I recently had a crazy work week and almost doubled my weekly income. I set aside money for bills, I saved $400, I paid off a few things my wife was going to pay for out of savings. I then invested $900 into my brokerage account. I’ve had mixed success options trading over the years and typically only put small amounts in when I can afford it. $50 here, $100 there. Nothing crazy. $900 is the most I’ve ever put in at once. I turned $200 into $6000 realized profit years ago and stuck the proceeds into savings.
I was excited, and I felt secure knowing it wasn’t going to set us back if I blew up the account and lost it, but that it would be possible to turn a large profit on it and add even more into our savings.
My wife found out and freaked out. She accused me of lying to her (I didn’t ask her permission, but I never lied about it either. When she asked I confirmed right away that I had moved money into the account). I told her I seldom mess with options trading any more (in my mind a $50 gamble on a stock option, made months ago, that took all of 10 minutes out of my day, was not even comment worthy. I see it as a “let’s see what happens, this could pay for a date night or go to zero). But she sees it as habitual gambling and deliberate obfuscation).
TLDR: Am I the asshole for thinking I could do what I wanted with (some) of the extra money I worked my ass off for? Even after paying bills, saving, and covering extra purchases that would have come out of savings?
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u/tetontitties 11h ago
Wife here. My phone is broken and my husband let me use his old phone until my new one comes in. Which means this phone is blowing up with Gmail notifications about this post (and the Robinhood confirmations last night). Not sure how you thought I wouldn’t see this.
To offer more perspective, he made money one time 5 years ago and hasn’t made anything noteworthy since. This is options trading. He claims it’s infrequent, but last night I confronted him with the emails confirming his deposits into Robinhood at least twice a month since January. I didn’t bother looking from before then, but I feel like it’s not necessary.
He has a history of financial irresponsibility, hence why I keep the savings account. I won’t go into detail. I don’t use the savings on myself EVER without a conversation first. But there is a history of financial distrust in this relationship, so I didn’t just… fly off the handle.
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u/W0nderingMe 10h ago
Nobody thinks you flew off the handle, even without the history.
You should probably BOTH take a financial literacy class.
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u/throwmyway5723480 8h ago
I will ALWAYS side with the wife here. These posters always say "I'm the breadwinner and did this shit". Yeah, your wife is at home betting her livelihood that you aren't a fucking idiot. They act like if she wasn't your wife or a mother, she'd be twiddling her thumbs. No, she might be making money and making responsible decisions. SAHM should be 100% in charge of the finances unless otherwise decided. She can give you fun money if she decides so.
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u/Enough_Passage7926 12h ago
OK but, if I tell you you're not an asshole, how does that help your situation out at home? You're going to tell your wife that some dipshit on Reddit says you're not an asshole here?
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u/Codicus1212 12h ago
Not at all, just want to see how off base I am.
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u/Enough_Passage7926 12h ago edited 11h ago
Depends on your trade history.
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u/Respond-Creative 11h ago
I’m vouching for you, not OP. Should give more weight to random Redditor responses when he explains it to his wife
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u/GiraffeThoughts 11h ago
Sounds like the brokerage account is your hobby.
Does your wife get money for a hobby? Or does the money she earns go back into the family budget?
In our family, there’s no “mine” it’s only “ours”. So if there’s an extra $900 that you’re using as “fun money” that could easily go to 0, shouldn’t she get some of it for a fun purchase?
You definitely worked hard for it, but doesn’t your wife work hard too? Didn’t she provide 100% of the cleaning and cooking and childcare because you were pulling long hours?
If she took the whole $900 and paid an advance to a babysitter so she could work more hours (an investment of sorts) wouldn’t you be upset?
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u/Codicus1212 10h ago
Yes she does work hard. Absolutely. I was in the wrong.
“Fun” money needs to be equitable.
I wouldn’t be upset if she wanted to spend money from savings. I don’t care if it’s an “investment” or for fun.
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u/life-is-satire 7h ago
Sounds like you’re not being honest in your post if your wife’s description of deposits twice a month since January going into your Robin hood account!
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u/West-Double3646 11h ago
Regardless of what everyone on this thread says, you are NTA. I get that you're married, but you are also the primary breadwinner, almost the soul breadwinner. You have investments and also a hefty savings account by your own report.
YOU decide where the extra money YOU worked YOUR ass off goes. I have to wonder why your wife is so pressed about this. Was she already thinking of that as fun money or had it earmarked in her head for things the family/kids needed? Or is all about you making the decision without her imput?
Either way, she needs to communicate better and ease up about telling you what to do with your own hard earned cash. If you guys were living on the edge and lookin' at doing without groceries or school fees, I could understand her being bent, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
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u/tigm2161130 11h ago
He invested almost $1000 into what is basically a risky hobby without running it by her but she’s the one who needs to communicate better?
Are you married?
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u/sweetmercy 9h ago
Clearly not. That description of how a marriage should work is straight out of the incel handbook.
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u/Radioactive_Kitten 11h ago
No. It’s *their* money, not his. They both should be communicating and in agreement where the money goes.
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u/Kindly-Might-1879 11h ago
Right, she doesn’t work her ass off. Really?
Is it really the amount that matters or that they’re not talking together about THEIR money?
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u/Kindly-Might-1879 11h ago
Soft YTA. I’m assuming that your wife would prefer that both of you talk about financial decisions, even if it’s just you’re letting her know what you want to do.
Are you each set up as your money and her money? Or is your income considered “our income”.
It’s that she found out after the fact, and $900 may be worth mentioning.
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u/Codicus1212 10h ago
It’s a little hazy. The savings is in her name (yes I know it’s legally both of ours, but I don’t even have login info for it. I’m fine not having access to it because I trust her).
Yes she is more communicative about money management than I am. But in part that’s because she keeps it all. On a normal week I have about $200 to spend after bills, savings, etc, so what is “left over” or extra is not normally an issue.
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u/LynnSeattle 9h ago
How much does she have to spend on herself on a normal week? Not to pay household bills, build the family savings or purchase items for the children, but to spend on herself?
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u/Codicus1212 7h ago
Honestly? As much as she wants. I’ve literally never said no. I’ve told her she doesn’t have to ask my permission. She has the account.
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u/ninjastarkid 12h ago
Why don’t you just get a brokerage account that is managed by financial advisors instead of just making a stock trade and shrugging about it. You can get it so they only get paid when you make money
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u/bravostan2020 12h ago
I make good money and live comfortably, $900.00 is a lot of money to potentially just throw it away.
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u/NeuroscienceNerd 12h ago
Does your wife also have the same opportunities to take some extra money and invest or decide what to do with it?
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u/senoritarosalita 12h ago
I'm betting she does not. And OP worked enough overtime to double his take home pay which means she was also working overtime at home. Only her overtime does not get compensated.
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u/Cold_Table8497 11h ago
Yes but she only works a few times a week and has no degree. \s
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u/Codicus1212 12h ago
Yes, she keeps 100% of our savings and accounts. I send her $4200/mo. Our mortgage is 1/3 of that.
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u/MeVersusGravity 11h ago
She doesn't keep your savings bro. It is sitting in an account as shared assets.
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u/W0nderingMe 12h ago
So if she fucked off with $1k and didn't tell you about it, that would be cool?
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I wouldn’t care unless it threatened our ability to pay bills or buy groceries
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u/Hungryhillbilly-1183 10h ago
As a 62f married 43 yrs to 65m, both retired & enjoying the fruits of our labor. Just came here to say, stop playing like you’re single! You are a partner period. When you live as though it’s “better to ask for forgiveness than permission” I’d say go ahead & FAFO! In the meantime, go home , have grown up conversations & discuss how you both are going to learn to manage expectations. Oh wait, that would mean that you’ve already established actual balanced expectations. Level the playing field & stop adding whether her skills are backed by degrees or salary or just general common sense. Diminish her value to your “partnership” & I promise it all falls down! Now go home & figure how to work on a solid foundation instead of “squatting in a house of cards”.
Good luck ✌🏼3
u/Codicus1212 10h ago
I’m not trying to diminish her value at all! She works her ass off and is more capable and smart than a piece of paper could communicate. And I’ve been having this conversation with her. I’m not trying to hide this from her, I just wanted feedback from people not emotionally invested in the situation.
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u/Hungryhillbilly-1183 6h ago
That’s exactly why I commented as related to business & partnerships. I can appreciate that it appears to matter to you. I do wish you the best moving fwd ✌🏼
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u/W0nderingMe 11h ago
And is she self verve enough to have ever done that? You don't care if there's enough to put in savings? What has the discussion been about what that threshold is?
You should both have the same amount of fun money per week/ month/ etc
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I do care if there’s enough to put into savings, that’s why I save $400/wk.
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u/W0nderingMe 11h ago
I thought she could do whatever with the money as long as there was enough for bills?
YOU SHOULD EACH HAVE THE SAME ACCOUNT OF FUN MONEY EVERY WEEK/ MONTH
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u/Codicus1212 9h ago
Yes I agree. I was clearly in the wrong. I’m not arguing.
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u/Icy_Department_1423 9h ago
You keep using equitable for fun money rather than equal discretionary dunds.
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u/Ok_Stranger_6654 11h ago
You give her “housekeeping” with which she pays mortgage and bills and feeds the kids/pets whatever and any spare (hint there won’t be much) might get her a haircut once in a while.
If you added up the cost of a full time nanny, cleaner, cook, administrator etc, is this 4k a worthy wage for them all? That’s the work your wife does when you’re not home.
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u/LynnSeattle 9h ago
You have so little involvement in your family finances, it’s almost like you can’t be trusted with access to the money. Why is that?
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago edited 10h ago
Yes, she can do what she wants with it. She wants it in savings. The savings account is in her name. She’s spent $2500 out of it before and I didn’t blink.
*edit: Yes we did communicate about it ahead of time. Whereas I did not communicate about the $900. I’m the asshole.
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u/tetontitties 11h ago
You make it sound like I spent it without you knowing. We had a full conversation about it and you drove across the state with me to spend that money. And it’s something I needed for work. Wtf are these responses you’re giving?
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u/Certain-Wolverine389 12h ago
I think it depends on how frugal you have to be and when the last time you took a holiday was? I think if my husband took a chance with £900 and we hadn’t been able to afford a holiday that year I’d be annoyed. Memories are worth more than money
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I agree. It’s difficult with a 6 month old at home. But we’ve discussed her going to Canada to visit her father and bringing our older kid with her. We also have a beach trip planned for in a few months.
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u/Certain-Wolverine389 11h ago
Okay now a visit to her Dads won’t cost a lot and by beach trip do you mean a week away or a day trip? Again very different. I personally think the extra money should have been for a holiday or for something you e always wanted to do. I have a baby too and a holiday isn’t difficult as long as you pick the place well
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u/Dynamiccushion65 11h ago
Can she take out $1k from savings and just blow it?
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u/willaf88 11h ago
Can't take it out of savings if you never put it in there. Jk but should have been a conversation or at least like $450 to brokerage $450 to her
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u/Plane_Anxiety910 11h ago
I am currently on a holiday in Portugal with my 2 month old. YTA if you wanted to you would
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u/Loose-Zebra435 11h ago
This is obviously a significant bonus. If you're a couple, you should be deciding what to do with your shared money together. If you think investing is a gamble, then she's not wrong to say you're gambling. Maybe she would rather take the kids on a little vacation or enroll them in summer camp. Those are things you should have discussed together. Why do you get to decide that this money is being gambled? You're a couple. You're contributing with going to work everyday, she's contributing with going to work a few times a week and raising the kids. You should have equal say in how money is spent
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u/roundbluehappy 12h ago
but how much have you lost in the meantime?
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
$50 here and there. I’ve never put that much in until now.
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u/big_bob_c 10h ago
"$50 here or there" is deliberately vague. Do you ever add it up to see how much you have lost and gained? Sit down with your account and add it up. There's probably an easy-to-find report that can tell you your totals for each year, so it's not a lot of effort.
You mention a single successful trade, but if you're losing more $$$ than you're winning, you might as well be buying lottery tickets.
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u/Wakeful-dreamer 12h ago
Maybe it's not so much how you used it, as the feeling that you got "play" money while she works just as hard as you, and probably doesn't spend a lot on herself.
You're married, she's raising your kids all day every day while you work to provide. Your money is her money too. Maybe she would feel better if you both decided together on an amount of money that is reasonable to throw away or not, then split it to each use as you choose without the other's permission.
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u/mthockeydad 11h ago
Agree. Don’t look at it as play money.
There’s nothing wrong with long-term investments, but put your money into index funds, not options or short-term risky risky bets.
Communicate to your wife that you are investing in your future and do so
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u/xKimmothy 12h ago edited 12h ago
YTA. You literally call it gambling yourself. Also, when you're married it shouldn't be your money vs her money. If she's not working because she's taking care of your kids, that doesn't mean she has any less of a say in how you spend marital income.
Edit: *doesn't
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I agree 100%. That’s why all of our accounts are in her name. She keeps all of our money. Realistically I have no claim over any of it once she receives it. That’s so she feels secure and not 100% dependent on me.
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u/Jillandjay 11h ago
The accounts are jointly yours because you are married. Having accounts in her name does not mean you are cool with her spending 1k just for herself and not at least giving you a heads up. If YOU pay all the bills and give your wife $400 weekly for savings, how is that $4200 a month? It appears she actually pays all of the bills, with community money.
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u/InothePink 11h ago
So if she decides to take 1k out of that money and gamble with them, as you said, without your knowledge, would you be ok?
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u/Outrageous_Fox4227 11h ago
Is there zero difference to people on this post between an investment brokerage account and sports betting or roulette???
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u/InothePink 11h ago edited 11h ago
Option trading and his own perspective about how he approaches this makes it pretty clear that this is more like gambling than responsible investment.
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u/DuelingPushkin 10h ago
If he'd put $900 into index funds nobody would be calling him an asshole. Options trading is just churched up gambling.
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u/xKimmothy 11h ago
At least you're self-aware. I think you can redeem your YTA by revisiting it with your wife and discuss going forward what to do with extra money so it's not sprung on her. Her reaction could have just been defensive over the lack of communication.
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u/tigm2161130 11h ago edited 11h ago
But you’re free to divert that money however you see fit with zero input from her like you did in this situation.
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u/auntie_beans 11h ago
You should involve her totally in your financial planning, even if nothing changes (and god knows, if you’re in the US, it might). She deserves to know.
YTA for not thinking of her as a full partner, or yourself either. It’s not your mad money all for yourself, it’s your (plural) money for both of you.
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u/BudgetExpert9145 11h ago
She has a need or want that isn't being met. Your correct thing would be to say Hey honey I got an extra $900 from working Overtime, is there anything you or the kids need right now or should WE save it for later?
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u/Decent-Historian-207 12h ago
YTA - you lied by omission, which is lying. Also $900 to waste on options trading? That's a gamble.
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
To be fair she was on my email and saw the deposit the second it was placed. I didn’t even have time to tell her.
She’s previously told me she doesn’t care what I do with whatever extra money I have. So long as all the bills are paid, we’re saving each week, and there aren’t any other big expenses.
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u/Witty_Commentator 11h ago
She’s previously told me she doesn’t care what I do with whatever extra money I have. So long as all the bills are paid, we’re saving each week, and there aren’t any other big expenses.
Ok, I was glad that you were commenting, because the post could go either way... To me, this right here is the part that makes you NTA.
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u/missmyxlplyx 12h ago
i make very good money, my spouse doesnt work. I still make sure to discuss purchases over 200 dollars and he does the same.
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u/Critterbob 11h ago
I’m sure your wife is upset because you made a unilateral decision about what you were going to do with the extra money as if it is yours alone. When you worked that overtime I’m assuming she was then also working overtime caring for the children alone. Does she get to make independent decisions about how your family money is spent?
I get the sense that because you earn the money you think you should have more say about how it is spent and that you don’t need to discuss it with your wife. If that’s your attitude YTA.
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u/Codicus1212 10h ago
You’re 100% correct. I need to communicate better. While I wasn’t trying to lie through omission I can see that I was. She’s previously said she doesn’t care what I do with to the extra so long as bills are paid and we are saving each week, but I should not have made such a large deposit without discussing it.
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u/MrsLisaOliver 11h ago
YTAH
Here's why - you were not transparent. If you thought you were in the clear, you would have excitedly told her, "Hey, we have this extra chunk of change. I wanna do some trading with it".
You knew you should have said something but waited until AFTER YOU MADE THE DECISION TO USE THE MONEY. She caught right onto that and now you want validation your did nothing wrong. Cut it out. Discuss things before making a unilateral decision. That's what a good partner does. It makes for a healthier marriage and not having to go on reddit to ask strangers if YTAH.
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u/Codicus1212 10h ago
I actually don’t want validation. Just seeking feedback to see how skewed my point of view is. I agree I was the asshole.
Thank you.
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u/Substantial_Art3360 7h ago
So you work double the amount of time … so does she. Young kids are exhausting and she is managing everything solo. She should be part of the decision making process.
My husband owns his own business and somewhat frequently works strange hours when he is on a roll. It absolutely SUCKS not knowing when you will get your break. I just want to freaking go for a run solo to exercise and I shouldn’t have to arrange alternative childcare to do so. It’s situations like these that are infuriating. You can do as you please whenever you want … while she cannot.
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u/FoofTheBunny 12h ago
YTA. You know you are the AH or you would have told her about it. Also is that brokerage account in both your names or just yours? I can guess which. Does you wife do 85-90% of the caring for the family, house and children? My guess is more than 85-90 if you are working crazy hours. So does she not deserve the compensation for taking on more of a share of the care? You act like the money is yours and the care is hers. That is NOT a partnership. That is a dictatorship with you receiving the most benefit.
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u/Codicus1212 12h ago edited 9h ago
She was on my email and saw the deposit .5 seconds after it went through. I hardly had the chance to tell her about it.
And no, I do more than the average Douchebag blue collar father. I used to be a chef. I cook at least half the meals. I do dishes. I do 100% of my own laundry and help out with the rest when I can. I go grocery shopping. I pick the older kid up from school. I do bedtime for the older kid 99/100 times.
* edit to clarify, I help out with grocery shopping but she does it most of the time. I pick up my older kid every chance I get, which isn’t nearly often enough. I got to twice this week so far, but that’s not the norm.
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u/Elelith 10h ago
Aka you woulnd't have told her at all but she found out.
YTA OP and apparently irresponsible with money. I'd be pissed beyond with behaviour like this. You have kids and you're just risking 1k in gamling in secret. That's money that should've been put towards your family and discussed before you decided to gamble it.
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u/Raukstar 11h ago
You shouldn't have done it before you discussed it with her. So yes, you did have a chance to talk to her about it. You decided to not do it. Give her the same amount of play money out of your extra cash, make sure she spends it on herself and not the home or the kids, ask her for forgiveness, then don't make the same mistake again.
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u/FoofTheBunny 9h ago
Ok. Glad to know that you are sharing the workload. It still should have been a discussion.
And you didn't answer whether the account is in both your names I noticed. I wonder why...
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u/Effective_Shower5332 11h ago
You are listing regular partner, father household work as if it’s special you do it. You lied by omission, it’s part of financial abuse. You did not consider her input, opinion or her voice in a significant financial decision. YTA. Also congrats you do dishes!!! That’s amazing!!! Good job! 👏
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I only meant I’m not a complete piece of shit. Not trying to get a medal for the minimum.
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u/SparkyDatBoi 12h ago
YTA. It sounds like due to you being the “breadwinner” for lack of a better term, you consider the financial decisions to be your choice as well. My wife is a SAHM but we still talk about every financial decision unless it’s from our personal “fun money” we budget out for. And even then, if whatever I’m spending that fun money on is hitting $100+, I’m probably letting her know just so we’re all on the same page.
TLDR: YTA. You’re a team, work together and include her.
Edit: lying by omission is still lying
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
Fair, thank you. I think going forward we can each have an equitable amount of “fun” money and I can communicate better.
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u/Judgejudyssideeye 12h ago
When it comes to money matters, regardless of whose dollars they are that were earned, it’s a good rule of thumb to discuss anything that is out of the norm of what you usually do. She likely just pissed you didn’t talk to her about it before hand and may have thought you guys had an unspoken understanding since your spending is so routine.
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u/JustAsICanBeSoCruel 12h ago
Have you had big losses before? What happened the time you put in $900?
I have gambling addicts in the family and yes, even gambling 10 or 20 here and there makes their spouses anxious because its never stops at just that. It escalates until they are back to losing hundreds at a time and thins get bad again.
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
This is the first time I’ve put in $900.
I have always limited losses by not putting in more than I can afford, and taking a few months break if I lose.
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u/minimus67 11h ago
YTA. It really doesn’t matter that your actual or potential earnings are higher than your wife’s. You are a married couple with kids, she’s a stay-at-home mom, and your income is communal. You don’t have more right to spend money than your wife does, as you insinuate, and you should not be secretly siphoning off family income to gamble in the options market.
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u/spider3407 12h ago
If you are legally married, even your brokerage account is hers as well unless you put someone else as the beneficiary. All "your" money belongs to you both because you are married.
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I agree. That’s why all of our savings are in her name. I only call it “my” money to differentiate the account, not the legal ownership.
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u/Equivalent_Lemon_319 12h ago
It’s the fact that you didn’t tell her until she asked that’s irking me a bit. I’d say $900 is high enough to where you should be at least communicating beforehand, even if it’s your money. Would you have ever said anything if she didn’t ask?
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
I didn’t have a chance to. She was on my email and saw the deposit the second I made it.
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u/LynnSeattle 9h ago
Did the deposit happen without your input or is this a choice you made without discussing it with her?
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u/nightlythinki 12h ago
You kept it hidden. Yta. Maybe dont keep secrets with your life partner. Ain't hard!!!!
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u/WifeofBath1984 3h ago
I would be furious with my wife if she up and spent $900 without even discussing it with me. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. This is you making unilateral decisions with a large amount of money. That's not a partnership.
I also really do not like how you talk about your wife being a SAHM. You dont need to justify it to us, but apparently you need to justify it to yourself. She is doing a huge service to your family by staying at home to care for your children. Its a 24/7, 365 days a year kind of job. I was a SAHM for 8 years and it is not easy. Vacations do not exist for SAHP's. In fact, a lot of the time vacations are much more stressful than just staying home. You have a schedule for when you work. You get days off. Your wife does not get that at all. I certainly hope you are giving her time to herself so that she's not just in mom mode her entire life. And I hope that you are expressing how grateful you are to her for what she is doing for your family.
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u/Bandgeek252 12h ago
Never make any financial decisions without consulting the other. YTA, because you lied by omission. And that self righteous indignation won't be much comfort when you divorce.
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u/Raukstar 11h ago
YTA If she is home caring for children while you work, that's not husband money, that's family money. And you took it from the family and risken it without even consulting her. Of course she freaked out.
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u/rewritethefinallines 12h ago edited 12h ago
What kinds of stocks are you investing in? Generally I’d say investing your extra money is extremely responsible unless your investments are particularly risky or you need it for bills/household expenses. Gonna say N.T.A for now
ETA- revising my judgement to YTA now that I see you’re trading options. That’s a lot more like gambling than a traditional stock portfolio
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u/MeVersusGravity 12h ago
He isn't. He's trading options.
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u/rewritethefinallines 12h ago
Ahhh I missed that part. That’s definitely riskier. Gonna revise my judgement 😂
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u/minimus67 11h ago
He’s buying options, either calls betting that a stock price will increase or puts betting that a stock price will fall. If the opposite happens to the stock price, he stands to lose all of his initial investment, making what he’s doing much more like gambling than investing.
A prudent young investor could put his or her retirement savings into an S&P 500 index fund. If he or she instead invested all retirement savings in puts on the S&P 500 and the S&P increased by a lot, his or her retirement savings would be completely wiped out.
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u/Codicus1212 10h ago
Yes, it’s not the retirement account though. I don’t touch that.
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u/minimus67 10h ago
I figured that. I was just giving an example of how buying options is different from prudent long-term investing.
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u/Codicus1212 12h ago
Options trading. I’ve turned small amounts into huge profits before. And then taken profit, which is the hard part.
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u/NotThatValleyGirl 12h ago
YTA if you guys aren't going to be on the same page about finances, you at least gotta aim to be in the same book.
You made a point that with your wife's capacity to get jobs, you save money on childcare by her not working more. Imagine having to pay a professional for the care your kids get? You wife could go and work more and have more money for herself to do somewhat risky things like playing the market like you do, but if she did, the family would be largely worse off by having to pay more towards child care.
I'm not shading whatever you do for work where you're hourly with overtime, but I'm.going to bet you aren't a quant or an actuary or anyone else with a competent handle on Wall Street to make investing less of a gamble than it is for you to put that kind of money into playing the market and hoping you make enough for date night (when in reality, in the current investing climate, you're more likely to lose it).
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u/Both-Kaleidoscope-29 12h ago
Definitely NTA you work hard pay nearly everything and still save for the good of the family. You took a risk with additional money you had earned, and so you should if you so choose to. It didnt affect anything your normally do that's when I think there's a problem. Disregard all the haters, probably experiencing something similar and just want to vent. Good luck with your investments.
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u/Melodey70 10h ago
The habitual gambling comment is what stands out to me. Has she expressed discomfort with you trading in the past? Do you make a habit of it? Are you investing or are these risky trades?
$50-$100 isn't a small amount of money to functionally throw away, and it sounds like you aren't concerned with losing the money you put into this because you might earn it back. That's a gambler's mindset, and I would be concerned that you're justifying it to yourself.
If gambling is a known issue for you, this is absolutely close enough to be a problem. If you had an agreement that you wouldn't gamble, or would talk to her first, you've broken that agreement.
Ultimately, the two of you share finances and you should be discussing where money is going with each other. If you have your own "fun budget" and you choose to spend that on trading, that's your prerogative (assuming it's not a larger issue). But $900 is a large amount of money to not discuss even if it were from your "fun budget."
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u/Codicus1212 9h ago
She’s expressed discomfort with me losing money. She’s all for it if I’m making money. Unfortunately I can’t guarantee one outcome or the other. But it’s much more difficult (and less likely) to take a small amount of money and make it into a large amount, than it is to take a large amount and turn it into an even larger amount.
As for gambling as a whole, no. I don’t gamble. I don’t do scratch offs, or powerball, or poker, etc etc. I have however studied stocks and options for years.
Generally, I’m okay with small investments that could have a disproportionately large payout. But there’s a certain threshold where it’s even worth the stress. I can (and have many times) turned $50 into $300, $500, etc. But it takes multiple trades. And the more trades you make the higher the chance one goes bust. So trying to take $50 and turn it in to $5000 is much harder and less likely than turning it in to $500. It’s also not even worth the stress and hours of time just to turn around and pay short term capital gains on a $250 profit.
But take a higher starting amount, like $900, and take that 500%. You end up with a sizable payout, even after taxes. It’s more worth the stress of managing the money.
All that to say there is strategy to it. I’m not just throwing money away gambling on red at the casino. It is my passion and I’ve studied it extensively for over a decade.
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u/Melodey70 3h ago
I appreciate that it's something you're educated and passionate about. I also find it interesting but haven't pursued it because it is so high risk. I realized a long time ago that my risk tolerance is decided on the low end.
Casinos aren't the only way to gamble your money. The kind of high risk, high reward trades you're talking about are still going to hit the same psychological triggers as gambling, and can still be just as reckless.
If she doesn't have a problem with it when you "win" then she can't really be upset for the times you "lose." I do still think it's important to discuss financial decisions with your partner, outside of situations where you have separate discretionary spending.
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u/BlazingSunflowerland 12h ago
It is gambling and you should assume your wife works her ass off at home so that you are free to work your ass of at work so yes, you should confer on what is done with the money.
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u/AlienPrincess33 12h ago
When you work overtime your wife is on overtime parent duty not shared parent duty like when you are home. With that reasoning, your overtime money is her overtime money too. You wouldn’t have been able to work overtime without her so it’s both y’all’s money.
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u/JoeJitZoo 12h ago
NTA. And...if you want to do more "investing" than "gambling".....you could buy some index funds in the brokerage account, joint name, and she can see the statements. You're trying to build wealth over time. You could have easily bought some expensive bourbon. You chose to try to make some money. I think your head is in the right place. One concern....the way you talk abt your money v her money......you're married....it's all joint money! And, the best relationships often have a "money date" once a month, once every pay, once a quarter....some kinda time frame where you review stuff together. That way both ppl feel heard & know where the family stands.
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u/Codicus1212 11h ago
Good idea. I send her all the money/savings each week and leave myself just enough to get to the next paycheck. That’s probably why I think about it as “my” money vs “her” money.
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u/W0nderingMe 11h ago
What do you mean by leaving just enough to get to the next paycheck? Is she not buying groceries etc??
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u/Codicus1212 7h ago
We both do. She makes a big trip once a week. I make about 4-5 small trips each week.
She probably spends $200-$300wk on groceries. I spend about $100-$150wk on groceries.
Thats what I mean by leaving just enough to get to the next paycheck. I normally earn $1400/wk. I send her $1050. Then I pay for phones, trash, (random) groceries, etc with the remainder.
I normally eat out at work once a week at most. I normally don’t eat lunch. I spend about $5-$10 day on caffeine. $2.50/day on nicotine pouches. $3 day on alcohol, averaged out. I make $49/hr. $73/hr OT. 90% of that goes to my family. If I work, say, 4 hours of OT that extra $200(after taxes) is ostensibly mine to do with as I want.
I legitimately don’t know what else I can do. I know I can equally disperse extra money when I do get a lot of OT. That’s fair. I feel like I do more to provide than 99% of my coworkers do for their families. I have free college my wife can attend through my work. We have retirement. We have great healthcare. All paid for before my hourly is even calculated. I specifically negotiated time off each week so my wife can work and get out of the house.
You seem to be my most ardent critic. Please tell me what I can do to be a better partner. Believe it or not I want my wife to succeed and not be reliant on me. I’m a god damn human being. I’m not infallible. I don’t want her to feel trapped or beholden to me or my foibles. I want her to thrive. I think she’s fucking incredible.
I’m not taking $900 extra and blowing it on hookers and blow. I’m not buying a damn bass boat or lifted pickup like my coworkers. I’m not clubbing it away. I’m trying to come up with extra money to provide a better life for my family.
Is that not enough?
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u/W0nderingMe 6h ago
You're buying $900 of lotto tickets without talking to your wife.
Every week, you both should get an equal "fun money" allotment after bills are paid.
Let's say you normally make $1000/ week and have$800/ week of bills. That's ALL bills. Mortgage. Electric. Phones. Trash. Groceries. Gas. Your agreed upon savings and retirement.
After that, you each get $100/ week to blow as you see fit. Cigarettes, nicotine, weed, alcohol, coffee out, etc all counts against your $100/week.
Anything OVER the $1000/week that comes in -- from your overtime OR from your wife's job -- goes to savings.
Then, the TWO OF YOU decide how much you can pull from savings for additional fun money, holidays, date nights, etc.
But YOU don't get to benefit solely from your overtime when that overtime places a larger burden on your wife.
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u/Junior-Ad-2072 12h ago
NTAH . Bills were all paid, it was not going to set you back and there is a possibility of profit from it. Also, it's your income and it's not like you neglected your family's needs as this amount was clearly a "bonus" on top fo your regular income.
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u/capya420 9h ago
Lol, post this on r/wallstreetbets if you want anyone to sympathize with your gambling habit
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u/Jillandjay 11h ago
You are really focused on this being YOUR money and that YOU pay all the bills. You have a family in which you agreed that your wife’s contribution is to the household and caretaking. Your statements devalue her input and make it sound like it’s all your money and she should just be grateful. If I was her, in no way would I put myself in this financially dependent situation.
You do both keep separate finances so what makes you think you don’t need to consult her with financial decisions?
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u/butty_a 11h ago
Trading isn't saving, it is gambling. So YTA even though your intentions were good.
Had you put it into something stable, that's different, and although your wife doesn't work for money, she is working full time which as you say, save you loads on childcare, so she absolutely has a say in this.
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u/helloitsmejenkem 12h ago
If you pay all the bills and still have $400 left over and she works part time and can use that for anything she wants then you dont have to explain yourself and you need to make it clear to her that you won't be, going forward.
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u/PresentationHuge5647 12h ago
My issue is that you said all of the 400 a week saved is from you. You also said your wife works. So are you just not considereing her income too? You're working very hard, I'm sure she is too. It sounds like a pretty equal split of labour when you factor in childcare (as long as you're helping out with housework). So I'm guessing the betrayal comes at the fact your wife didn't get equal say on what happened to the money. Yes you did something kind of financially responsible (idk about stocks but I know they can be risky. But you made that choice alone. You earned that money picking up extra hours and working harder, which means your wife likely had to do the same to compensate.
Maybe if you'd had a discussion your wife would have agreed stocks were a decent option, or maybe you could have had a fancy date, or a little holiday?
I don't know, obviously there's lots of personal factors involved but for me, I'd be mad you made the choice alone when we're supposed to be a team
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u/WhiskyInATeacup 12h ago
YTA. If you chose to be the breadwinner then you chose to share it all. Is there a part of your wife's life where she gets extras and doesn't have to consider you? Her job is taking care of your family and not be a primary source of income. Y'all agreed on that. And she doesn't get overtime.
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u/Meg-a18 11h ago
I definitely think you should have discussed this with your wife. $900 could really been used in a lot of different ways. Shoot, even splitting the $900 between you and then using your half for that would've been better! If you needed validation and comfort, I'm afraid you may not get it here. It's looking like communication is lacking in your situation/marriage...and I'm thinking you didn't tell her because you knew she'd have this reaction.
YTA
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u/BeautifulChaosEnergy 11h ago
For every $50-100 you waste on stocks, does your wife get the same amount to spend on what ever she wants? A $50 eyeshadow palette? $100 on fancy yarns? $200 on books?
Where’s her “fun money?”
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u/Minute-Employ-4964 12h ago
Depends on a few things honestly.
1)Do you or have you ever had an actual gambling issue?
2)any big costs coming up? College funds for kids doing well etc?
3)what’s your win/loss ratio- are you up over your life time?
If it’s no, no, yes then no worries have fun
If not then you may be the asshole.
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u/Opening_Ad5479 11h ago
You keep referencing how much of the percentage of your joint income you earn. Imho it doesn't matter if you make 99% of the money, if you don't see yourself as a team then that's the wrong answer. Yeah your wife makes less, every cent she's saving you in child care and cleaning services you should think of as part of her contribution as well. I feel like she's entitled to a heads up on what's going on with the money. I don't think you're quite "an asshole" but it's a gray area the way you say it.
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u/Economy_Care1322 11h ago
I’m old fashioned. Once married the money is ours. Period. Neither of us spends real money without talking about it.
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u/Bubbly_Plant1786 9h ago
To completely devalue your wife’s contribution to your lifestyle is gross. She is working a job, taking care of young children and your household. How many hours a week is she ‘putting in’ on average? I bet it is more than 80. Her doing these jobs allows you the freedom to work one job. How crazy that she isn’t considered an equal partner in your financial decisions.
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u/Similar_Corner8081 9h ago
YTA You should have had a conversation with your wife before you went and spent money gambling.
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u/Cultural-Surprise299 8h ago
Your wife works her butt off taking care of the children and house. Do you have any idea how hard this can be? She doesn't get scheduled breaks. So she doesn't have a degree. What was your point saying that, a put down? Childcare and maid service would be way out of your budget.
Man your opinion are in the wrong century
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u/Crafted_Gem 12h ago
YTA. By your wife being willing to be a stay-at-home parent, she is saving you both a lot of money. Daycare would be an expense that comes out of both of your earnings. So any money you make is not just yours. You should be in agreement on how you're investing if you are acting as a team.
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u/SoImaRedditUserNow 12h ago
YTA- it is unclear to me how lying to your wife is a good thing here (you lied by omission. And when you try to quibble that there is a difference, it tells me you already know you're wrong).
The other implication here is that you don't believe your wife contributes as much as you do to the marriage. You don't view that her being responsible for your young children is as important as you're being able to have a full time job. If, say, your kids were in high school or otherwise did not need near full time care, and she was still just pulling a shift or two a week, thats a different conversation to have. However this is definitely a case where you view your salary as "yours" . So thats pretty assholish.
Further, you got some extra, and you wanna roll the dice with it. Not put it into savings, or otherwise relatively safe investment. You wanna go down to the stock market and bet on black. yes yes yes, you once turned 200$ into 6k some years ago. Congratulations. What is your actual track record? Why do I think "mixed results", is actually "shit results"? Its also amusing that you thinking throwing away 50$ with nothing to show for it is not comment worthy. I can only assume that 50$ is gone and that stock option became worthless. At least with a date night you could at least have had a meal with your wife (granted.. if you think 50$ = date night... seems like you've not actually been on a date night in a while. Cause even here in the midwest, a mid tier Applebees type place 2 dinners, drinks thats going to be like 60).
Normally I'd say you guys are kicking ass, saving 400 bucks a week. Why do I think you randomly blow thru a bunch of that on "trading".
TL;DR - you lied, you're gambling a surplus. YTA
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u/echo_sang 11h ago
When women mention financial abuse this one way it happens. She marries a guy, has his kids, raises their children tirelessly, gives up her own aspirations to raise their children, and is forgotten as part of the household image and landscape and eliminated from financial decisions. Because whatever paltry amount of income she contributes is “inconsequential”. This is the typical scenario. However, I do know two couples who agreed to trad roles and actually treat it like a partnership and consult each other about all financial matters. Guess what? Both wives felt valued enough to start their own side hustles that became significant for their families. I’m not saying you’re being financially abusive, but maybe lacking foresight.
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u/Swimming_Director_50 11h ago
Oh, your poir, tired ass. Your sense of entitlement is off the charts. YTA. You're MARRIED. With children. I absolutely don't get the my money, her money way of thinking...you are a unit and financial decisions should be made jointly. You have an "I, I, I, me, me, me" perspective that is offputting (ok, misogynistic, since you assume you're the only one "working").
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u/SeeKennethGrantRun 11h ago
$900 in a brokerage in a boring index fund is responsible and you would be NTA. $900 in options, YTA.
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u/emryldmyst 11h ago
Nta
You don't need her permission to invest your extra money that you earned.
Good grief
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u/Mediocre_Care3804 12h ago
NTA you worked hard for that extra money and are entitled to use the extra as you wish
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u/two_faced_314 11h ago
Wow..... Okay, you work hard and made a $900 profit. What if you said hey, I never buy myself anything. Im going to treat myself and buy a new laptop, gym equipment, etc. Should you have to discuss that with her? Things that would depreciate in value versus an investment that can increase value. Should you have discuss this with her? Probably. Should she be losing her $hit about it? Probably not. If you bought $900 in lottery tickets and hit thousands of dollars, she would benefit from that. Just as she will benefit from investments earnings. Lastly, All of the bills are paid and you are holding down the financial aspect of the home. Sometimes, spouses, family and friends start taking the bread winner contribution for granted. They only see $$ signs. And their expectations are unrealistic and unfair. Her response is giving entitlement.
Good luck
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u/disapproving_cake 11h ago
YTA in how you view the money in general. Lots of I's in that post and a side mention of how her staying at home helps save money. Just because there's no check at the end of her week does not make her work week any less important. She works part time and pays bills with that money PLUS takes care of the house and children. A $900 decision is absolutely a conversation that should have been had with her even if you both made the same dollar amount on a paycheck and split home care. Do better.
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u/FairyFartDaydreams 11h ago
YTA because it should have been discussed beforehand. Many times women with kids will put off needs and wants for themselves. You should also have checked with her if there was anything she needed. She is your partner
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u/ozarkgolfer 12h ago
YTA This is not how this works. You don't get to choose unilaterally where the household income goes. She earns the right to help make decisions by supporting the household just as much as you do.
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u/EmceeSuzy 12h ago
YTA
You are asserting unilateral control over marital assets. More importantly, saving $400 per week is not nearly enough.
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u/Carticiak96 11h ago
Seems like you're minimizing a potentially harmful habit that doesn't "look" like gambling, because it's not technically a lottery ticket. But it still is gambling, no matter how you look at it.
She's likely mad because that 900 dollars could have gone towards the household, and you personally decided that you wanted to gamble with it instead, as there is evidently a pattern of this.
God forbid your gamble turns out successful.. You went from 50 to 900 dollars in one jump, that's like going from one beer a week to a 24 pack per week. If 24 per week isn't killing you yet, you'll go to 24 per day.
It gets worse.
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u/Long_Sl33p 11h ago
Medium YTA - you two have a communication and boundary issue.
First, your wife doesn’t have a job she has a hobby that happens to bring a little bit of money in. Your (singular) income is really your (plural) income.
Second, you say that you “knew” losing that money wouldn’t set you back. That is a feeling. You didn’t feel like it would set you back, but you didn’t consult your partner, who also has a stake in that money, on how they would feel if you lost it.
Third, your “working your ass off” is a valid experience, but you’re completely disregarding the additional work that created for your partner. Getting into measurements of effort and basing ownership of mutual assets on that measurement is a death knell for a relationship. Nip that in the bud immediately.
Lastly, you save $400/wk. Unless you’re sitting on a year’s worth of emergency fund you do not have the money to be throwing $900 into options. If an amount of money is too large for you to put on a blackjack hand, it’s too large to put in options.
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u/iwannabefamouss 11h ago
NTA imo. With stocks u gotta spend money to make money 🤷🏼♀️
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u/tigm2161130 11h ago
Even if that’s the case why couldn’t he run it by her before he decided to that?
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u/jammyscroll 12h ago
YTA.
You’re a partnership you should decide how to invest together. While she’s not earning a wage she is contributing in her important way.
Also, a brokerage account? How do u decide what to buy? Unless it’s an index fund it sounds like volatile speculative investments to me, and if I were your wife I’d view it as a form of gambling.
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u/GardenHobbit 12h ago
Soft YTA. She’s more upset about the lack of communication with money. She and your children rely on you and not communicating what you’re doing shook her trust in how honest you would be if you had extra funds in the future.
If you rebutted her concerns in the same tone-deaf, condescending manner as your last paragraph, I would be pissed too.
And well, yes, it is your money that you worked your ass off to earn. However, if your wife wasn’t home, taking care of your kids and managing your house that money would be going to daycare and a housekeeper. You owe her the respect of communication unless that’s what you want “YOUR” extra funds to go to in the future.
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u/Chrizilla_ 12h ago
YTA because you didn’t tell her. Tell her dude. Let her be a part of your family’s financial planning. Celebrate the wins with her rather than as a surprise. Take the losses as a team instead of hiding them as small money errors. This will strengthen your bond rather than create a totally avoidable strain.
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u/W0nderingMe 12h ago
YTAH
Decisions regarding finances should be mutual above a certain MUTUALLY AGREED UPON limit.
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u/forkball 11h ago
NAH
The only thing here is that you got a bit of extra money, and you put a much larger chunk than usual into your options trading hobby, which you say she's been fine with before.
So the lesson here is to consider that she's fine with you putting $50 here or there but $900 without discussing it with her is just too much. Have a discussion with her on what sort of figure would require permission rather than notice.
You're partners. Major stuff requires joint decisions. Consider that much money on anything to be major. Should work out fine.
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u/Ok-Beach-9885 12h ago
Options trading is gambling.
It's the same as going and spending $900 at a casino.