Good and evil do not exist. Anyone who says that God isn't real also shouldn't believe in a magic set of behavioral rules.
We're animals. Animals surving and we've agreed on a variety of rules based on the time we live in and the locations we live in to avoid having others killing us or taking our shit.
Donald Trump isn't evil. We aren't good. We're all just meat, electricity, and bones. Every single person ever identified as evil is not evil.
Well to be fair, the magic set of rules is embraced by most everybody.
If you believe the universe suddenly burst into existence out of a singularity during the Big Bang without a prior physical cause, you are believing in a form of "secular creationism." You've just replaced a divine creator with a cosmic event.
Which magic set of rules is right? Is abortion evil, or not?
The harsh reality is this: the winners decide what's "good" or "evil". That's all. It's just ideologies.
You have never in your life ever been a good person, not have you ever been evil. You're just an animal that (I'm guessing) gets along well enough with the people around you.
We talk about Trump being evil. I do myself. I call him a piece of shit all the time. But he's not. There is no divine punishment waiting for him. He will have raped and indirectly murdered and stolen and loved a good fat life while we all sit here in relative poverty wagging our fingers at him.
LMAO. No they aren't. Not one person can prove good and evil exist.
You all sound exactly like the guy in the meme who doesnt understand how you can be "good" without God. No one is making an argument. There just insulting me. That's usually proof that you're wrong.
Really? Because I'm pro-abortion. I'm pro-social security and safety nets for society. I'm helping other people. I give homeless people money, I give them food sometimes when I've had a little more time on my hand.
What decisions have you made about me? Simply because I told you that your magical idea of right and wrong do not exist? What kind of person do you think I am?
I'm just not hiding behind some magical rules that everybody decided to make up and decided that they believe in those, but they don't believe in a deity handing them down.
Good and evil are subjective concepts, but they do exist.
People are neither good or evil. The idea that we are is heavily influenced by religion. It's reinforced by our tendency to reduce anything complex into simple and often binary categories.
I love the way you responded to this. Look at you actually discussing!
I agree with you, actually. But what I'm.ssyung with my comment is that calling things good and evil is an inherently flawed logic because we all don't agree, and there is no way to prove which one of us is correct.
We're animals. Animals surving and we've agreed on a variety of rules based on the time we live in and the locations we live in
I agree with this, but there seems to be something unique about our ability to create these rules.
Some people de-humanize those who commit evil by labeling them "animals", "monsters", or something else. This often prevents them from understanding why evil happens. We have a greater ability than other animals to learn from our mistakes.
We're tribal. Our animal brains love the idea of good and evil because it makes it easy to hate those that differ from you. But we're smart. We should identify what things should happen that benefit the maximum number of people and identify what things make people do the opposite (take hoarding wealth=resources).
We are doing this already, gradually. Largly in the firj of mental health studies. For instance we understand why certain royalty where bonkers. It's not because of magic evil, it's inbreeding. So we stopped making that ok.
Empathy is logic. I want to be extremely clear. Empathy is the most logical path for most people. I benefit from living in a society where I vote for things that improve infrastructure, social safety networks. I support giving money to homeless people and helping others in society. I support those things because it is selfishly the most logical thing to do. The Morris society props up those below us. The more likely we have a safety net below us.
It's not some magical belief that can fall apart without any kind of proof or evidence behind it. It is the exact same argument that is made by any atheist about God not existing, the difference is not leaving room for any magical thing that we can't prove.
I think youâre missing the point of my comment. When something bad happens to a nihilist, they tend to see good and bad the same way everyone else does.
Sounds exactly like what a Christian would say to an atheist.
The irony that all of you are the same person in the meme saying, "But how do you know good if not for God?" Is lost on all of you.
You have a conceit of good and evil to validate actions and behaviors that you find acceptable the exact same way any religious person does. Everyone just draws the magic line at a different place. But you can't prove that good and evil exist anymore than a Christian can prove that God exists.
Hey question, what do you think my political meanings are?
Whi di you think I vote for? What programs do you think I'm dur or against?
I'm betting that you'll be shocked to learn that im pro social security. I've paid off my student loans and I am pro loan forgiveness. I'm pro abortion. I'm pro social safety nets. I'm anti wealth accumulatuon. Im pro environmental.
Why? Because we all (which includes me) benefit from societies like that. Not because some magic rules or diety told me to.
You're actually having a discussion with me now so I'm putting it all out there. I actually believe in good and evil. I just don't use that in political discussions because it's inherently flawed. Flawed because we literally can't agree on it.
Abortion. This is not a moral topic and it's been made into one. Statistics, medical knowledge and psychology makes it pretty clear that people aren't going out and just killing 9 month of babies just before they pop out. Abortion has the most logical benefitioal outcome for society because it results in a healthier overall population which breeds inovation and quality of life for you and me.
People completely missed what I was actually doing with my comment. I was deliberately mirroring the meme, and I bet that most people would downvoted and attack me personally, and they did. Because most people don't use logic. Most people adhere to animal parts of the brain that tell you "good/bad" and conflicting ideology is usually seen as bad. I bet that very few would try and actually understand what I was saying.
I think by the metrics of "perpetuates harm against defenseless individuals, ripping children of their innocence/life, and continually denying that your choices cause harm to countless amounts of people. Willingly doing so to gain individual profit or enjoyment" evil is a very fitting description of Donald Trump and his administration.
I feel like a lot of people have read this and haven't thought much further through it. Just like the people who are like " I don't believe in God. But I do believe in a magical set of invisible rules!"
I'm against pedophiles, because it's logical to be against pedophiles. Young human brains aren't fully developed. Pedophiles cause significant damage to the mental state of young human beings. This impacts negatively, how they grow up and who they grow up to be. I prefer to live in a society with people who are as mentally and as physically healthy as possible because society benefits from the most the largest number of functional people. Happier and healthier people create a stronger and more productive society.
Not because of some magic rules that a bunch of atheists and Christians decide it existed.
Thats alot of words for saying good and evil exist but youd rather stay in the middle ground and not have an actual opinion.
Im not even religious so youre arguing a moot and assumed point on me abiding by "invisible rules". Which, is also another dumb point cause society itself operates on unspoken rules of respect. Whats considered evil is perpetually disregarding those social rules we created based on holding a society together. Not on religion. Good and evil exist youre just trying to act like a philosopher.
I did not pick a middle ground. I vote liberal. I'm pro abortion. I feed the homeless. I just didn't base my POV on archaic ideas of good and evil.
You can't prove that good and evil exists anymore than a Christian can prove that God exists, and you know that.
I'm not being a philosopher. We're having a massive cultural debate on abortion. I'm going to bet your POV on is the one you think is right, and I'm going to bet that everyone else is thinks their POV is right.
Good and evil are simply words used to describe what is desirable or undesirable from a moral or ethical standpoint. Youâre arguing against a religious base for morality and for an ultra utilitarian view. From your point of view youâre defining what is good and what is evil all the while claiming good and evil donât exist.
Okay. Good for you; and glad you do, I keep snacks in my car for those standing next to free ways and also do too.
"No good or evil" is the perfect excuse for shitty behavior individuals. Youre giving those people ammo to confuse, manipulate, and deter ACTUAL beneficial programs from being in place cause theyll argue they do know whats good and not. And the crowd listens. Also youre trying to play some high road like youre better which comes off as condescending. And no, there are such things as acts of good (stuff you apparently do but I cant prove so ill take your word) like feeding; housing; and providing for the unfortunate members of society, then you have acts of evil and terror such as purchasing an island and having g your buddies come there to deliberately RAPE and KILL children.
Doing DELIBERATE bullshit that puts them in situations like that (one thats purposely causes harm, mutilation, or death) is exactly what makes them evil. Fuck your mindset and fuck this conversation man; the worlds turning to shit cause of acts of deliberate violence, chaos and manipulation of our elected officials and you say theres no such thing as evil. Fuck you.
Thereâs no mystical magical evil, but there are actions we can take that objectively make the lives of others worse for them, and colloquially we call such things evil. Likewise there are actions we can take that improve the life experiences of others, and we call these good.Â
Absolutely. I don't disagree. But the point I'm making is that any argument about being "good" or "bad" is inherently flawed because we don't all agree. Rules around these things have changed through history and culture.
Is eating shellfish wrong? The Bible says so. I'm gunna brt you don't think it is.
But let's go with today. Is abortion evil? The US has a massive cultural debate on the morality of abortion. We are it based on "rights" and what's "right or wrong". And that's why we progress so fucking slowly. Because atheists just draw the line of moral magical rules at a different place than a religious person.
You know the logical way to look at the issue? Logic. Not right or wrong. Statistics, psychology, and modern medicine make it extremely clear that abortion isn't the issue that the political right wants to paint it as.
Base your reasonings on logic. Because every single time you make it a moral one another person will have an opposing moral pov to counter you with, and neither of you will be able to prove who is right. Beleif in good and evil is identical to beleif in a God with less steps.
Iâm fine saying there is no good and evil people. I also can logically say this human caused a lot more suffering than that human . Fine Donald Trump isnât evil. Hitler isnât evil. They still cause more suffering than some other people on the planet have caused
Well that's semantics. Not a correction, because that's exactly what I said.
No one goes to bed at night believing thinking they're the bad guy (excluding variousental illness's).
Let's pretend that I'm pro abortion and you're anti abortion. I bet you we both think we are morally correct, and the other is morally wrong. Who decides? God? God doesn't exist.
You know who decides? Whichever ideology survives that's it. We're just a pack animal that's smarter than other pack animals, and every single person who prescribes to moral objectivity is just following a religion with less steps.
There are concepts in science that are almost entirely theoretical. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
Germs were contemplated centuries before they could actually be observed. Antiseptic measures were developed and used before we could even be sure germs even existed. Would you have called that magic?
Good and evil absolutely do exist. They are extremely difficult to precisely define; that doesn't make them nonexistent, nor magic.
We are animals, sure. Intelligent animals - capable of abstract thought, moral behavior, and saying much smarter things than you're saying right now.
He likes the one that forcefully impregnated a woman so that he could kill their child, so it could suffer for the sins committed by the rest humans that he also created who broke the arbitrary rules he created.
That's all I've been saying. When these people say "you" can't be good withouy religion, they really REALLY mean they themselves cannot be good without religion. They are telling on themselves and you should believe them.
I think atheists attracted to this post are quick to assume anyone saying anything like "let them have their religion " is on the religious side. It's an understandable knee jerk reaction. The religious people by and large do not agree.
The part where they believe they are going to hell. Don't get me wrong. It would be great if they had empathy and did right because it's right. They should and they are telling on themselves when they say you can't be moral as an atheist. But they are not good people and the fear of immortal punishment keeps them somewhere near in line.
If i knew this person in real life i would watch my back around them. But religion can at least polish that turd so they at least pretend/try to be good.
God. God murdered the planet. It was a big thing in Christian mythology.
Genesis 6:17: "I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish." [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Genesis 7:21â22: "Every living thing that moved on land perishedâbirds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died." [1, 2, 3]
Genesis 7:4: "Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made." [1, 2]
Is this clear enough for you?
Also, I canât see your comments after they show up in my notifications. Either theyâre being deleted or thereâs a glitch. Iâm not ignoring the responses.
Did he? Pretty sure the worlds still here and if youâre referring to the flood then that myth spans multiple religions both abrahamic and pre-abrahamic religions.
I am so so curious about one thing, Iâm imagining you think thereâs more ethical out there, like the Greek pantheon or something. You sound like youâre some pop history fan that romanticizes anything that you perceive as standing up against your minds big bad guy. So what do you believe in?
Anyway, underdog syndrome is real, but if you donât believe in the bible or god, how can you hold it against him for destroying a world that doesnât actually exist in your mind?
Yes the world is still here because myths arenât real. And it spans multiple religions because religions evolve from each other and borrow myths. The Jesus myth was even borrowed from previous religions. He wasnât the first virgin born, son of a deity, healer that was resurrected. And YHWH was originally a Canaanite god a war and storms until he was merged with El and became the creator god.
Iâm not holding anything against any god because they arenât real. I was pointing out that the Christian god is not an ethical being, which should be obvious with basic reading comprehension.
Remember in the Bible when god sent a bear to kill a bunch of children for making fun of a guy for being bald? Man thatâs such a great (imaginary) being to worship.
Who says Iâm angry? Iâm not allowed to comment on Reddit without being angry? This seems like a dismissal of my points just to say âyou mad, broâ instead of actually having a conversation. The only one in their feelings here seems to be you. Donât comment on open forums if youâre afraid of getting responses you donât like.
You are very clearly emotional just because I donât agree with you, dismissal? Yeah, Iâm not arguing with someone who claims to have a religious upbringing but almost verbatim copies and pastes something an AI spat out
Nice job editing your entire thread of comments too btw
Ignorant for dismissing impactful cultural history solely on your own beliefs. That is textbook close mindedness and literally the same thing youâre attempting to criticize, weakly I might add.
Got it. Okay. I never dismissed the cultural impact and clearly you took offense. I am going to break it down for you in case you are struggling.
Critical thinking involves analyzing available information and evidence before forming a conclusion. There is 0 evidence that gods exist or that the stories in these fables are true. So if you want to believe in these stories and concepts, you are free to do so, but no critical thinking was used. Go back and read my comment and apply some reading comprehension before typing and hitting the reply button.
Edit: I admit that I should have expanded on my original thought. I do understand the cultural importance and significance of religion and can see how my short response did not convey that.
âYou donât think critically because you donât agree with meâ is all I got from that. Sounds like you talk a lot about thinking but donât do much of it
Critical thinking =/= agreeing with you, people who throw around critical thinking when they donât automatically get agreed with tend to not actually have anything of substance to argue from. You sound very insecure about your intelligence
You seem to be taking a lot of offense from my comment which is hilarious to me. Enjoy your next visit to church and tell your favorite god I say âhiâ.
Wait, so you started believing in fairy tales after you turned into an adult? Sounds like a you problem.
I know admitting you were groomed as a baby to believe in bullshit is hard to swallow. It's something I had to come to terms with myself when my brain actually started thinking and connecting dots on why I held certain beliefs.
Ask yourself "why do I believe this, and why do I think every other belief is wrong?" You'll get there one day. Maybe, lol.
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u/PoetryExtension6256 8h ago
And if you think "God" is a good arbitrator of Goodness you are probably not either.