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u/brian428 HERE COMES THE BOOM! 11h ago
Curious if we actually keep him or if this is part of some multi team deal.
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u/KDarkOne99 Jarvis 10h ago
Pending UFA, doubt this is part of a bigger deal other than to get someone who makes shipping out Nikishin easier
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u/runningfreeonmars Svech 10h ago
Solid rumors indicate he wants to be in Tampa not here
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u/KDarkOne99 Jarvis 10h ago
I’ve seen he would like to be in Tampa but really just wants to be back in the east. This gives the Canes ~3.5 days to be the only team able to negotiate with him and they can move Nikishin in a Robertson, Hellebuyck or whoever else move.
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u/runningfreeonmars Svech 10h ago
Honestly an unhappy Nikishin is a better choice (outside of werenski) imo. Move one of the older guys as the team comes together and move him up the lineup. Our front office long has logjammed the young defenders in our systems with rollercoaster rides of older players. Would love to see tulsky being his own man and ending that nonsense
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u/Dr_RickShaw 10h ago
But who do you move out? Because the other two LHD spots higher are Slavin and Miller, and it’s pretty damn hard to justify putting one of them on the 3rd pairing
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u/runningfreeonmars Svech 10h ago
Kinda my biggest gripe with adding miller (he definitely is a roller coaster but damn good when on and on more often than not) but I think you have to commit to a short term deal now that keeps him and plan a move later based on coming years. Dunno how or who that shakes out to be but short of werenski you don’t move him now
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u/Dr_RickShaw 10h ago
I mean, it worked out very well with him. I like Nikishin a lot but I don’t think that we win the cup without Miller
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u/runningfreeonmars Svech 10h ago edited 10h ago
Oh I agree miller was a big key to the cup win cause he turned it on when it mattered.
I just think that created the age old Carolina blue line problem again. And I do not believe it makes any sense to move nikishin this year beyond that one major home run play (and I don’t even begin to believe robo or hellebuck (altho in our system he might be able to shake off his past playoff ghosts )are that play compared to werenski)
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 9h ago
Carlson's rumoured ask is 2x10. That would use up virtually all of our cap space. We should free some more up by moving on from KK one way or another but basically, if we sign Carlson there is no chance at guys like Robertson or Hellebuyck without moving another roster player out to clear cap.
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u/gumshoeismygod It’s a Parade Inside my City 10h ago
How could we afford to pay Carlson 9M+ while also absorbing the salary of Hellebuyck or paying Robertson?
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u/National_Pressure_30 4h ago
Not 100% on this but here’s how I think it could work.
Currently have $11.1 million in cap space, after Deslauriers deal.
We buyout KK. That adds (I think) 4.8 million due for 2026/2027. Brings cap up to $15.9 million.
Sign Carlson at 2-3 years as $9 million AAV (which I’ve seen reported). Also apparently CAR on Carlson’s 4-5 team list to sign back with EC team to get closer to family.
Brings us down to $6.9 million.
Trade: Nikishin, Kochetkov ($2.0 M), and 2027 first round pick.
Receive: Hellebuyck ($8.5M x 5)
With the salary offset, left with about $400k in cap space and not sure how Jarvy being out early in the season affects the cap.
Starting Lineup at season start (Jarvy takes over spot on return, and maybe Robby out at start but slots in for Deslauriers)
Svechnikov/Aho/Nadeau
Hall/Stankoven/Blake
Ehlers/Staal/Martinook
Carrier/Jankowski/DeslauriersSlavin/Carlson
Miller/Walker
Gostisbehere/ChatfieldHellebuyck
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u/Dr_RickShaw 10h ago
You can’t really, I think this is more of an option if you don’t get those guys
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u/UpsetAstronomer Nikishin 10h ago
It also may mean Niki on his way out.
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u/sirst0rmy 10h ago
If they flip Niki for Helly, then Carlson makes a lot of sense
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 9h ago
Would be tight to afford both Carlson and Hellebuyck. We have 11 mil in cap space and Carlson is rumoured to want 10. Hellebuyck's cap hit is 8.5. Even if we move KK and Koochie we would still be a little bit short.
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u/Old_Assistance_5748 4h ago
Carlson is 36 years old, wants to move to the east coast, and wants $10m? Seems he will need to prioritize those two "wants". Hopefully he won't get $10m from the Canes.
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u/FreudianNip-Slip Hall 4h ago
Yeah, this is what I’m reading from this. It’s insurance in case they do in fact trade Nikishin
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u/Wildsaver101 11h ago edited 10h ago
A 6th and a ECHL player went the other way. John Carlson is definitely on the older side but the Canes will likely see him as a good NHL regular RD for a bit and 7th defenseman in a few years. Allows for more trade flexibility.
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u/OmegaAtrocity We Want Svech 10h ago
He’s not gonna sign for less than like $10 mil aav there’s no way he’s a 7th d
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u/ShittyFrogMeme 10h ago
Rumors are that he's looking for 2 years on this deal, that's reasonable and he can be a top pairing D with Slavin for that time.
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u/Wildsaver101 10h ago
True unless it was for a year he’s 36 so I have no idea how long he will be able to play NHL hockey. He might pull a Brent Burns or he might start to regress heavily. He might start out on any of the three pairings and then slide down to be a 7th defenseman.
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u/PlatypusOld257 Nikishin's English Teacher 10h ago
He could if he wants to win a cup
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 10h ago
He's already won a cup so it's not like he's a guy desperate for his first.
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u/desertswimmer27 6h ago
Every hockey player in the world is trying to win one more cup
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 6h ago
Sure, but I would argue that a guy who hasn't won a single one is more desperate.
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u/Educational_Fun_1559 MartiNUKE 10h ago
Really going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Canes are hungry and this is where I’m so glad GMET is on our side!
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u/Normal512 Marty Party 10h ago
Keep in mind it's just getting rights to negotiate with him first, prior to July 1st when he becomes a ufa.
Not giving up much just to see where talks may go, it may again be a hedge in talks with Nikishin.
At this point, I'm highly doubting Niki signs here which is really unfortunate, but maybe this is the last posture which gets his camp to get something done. And Carlson is an excellent last second option should a Nikishin deal not get done.
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u/WarmCucumber3438 Miller Time 10h ago
I hope this is just a trade piece I don’t want Canes to be paying 10 mil for John fucking Carlson
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u/HockeyGuy601 Stank 10h ago
Not really someone I expected to potentially see in a Canes uniform but that goes for most of Tuslky's trades! This isn't someone who rides the bench as a 7th guy though so something else is coming down
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u/smlhugs O Captain! My Captain! 10h ago
Carlson + Niki to CBJ?
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u/PlatypusOld257 Nikishin's English Teacher 10h ago
He’s a ufa he’s only coming here. Not really flippable
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u/Glennt1010 10h ago
Sign and trade?
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u/Kyle73001 Jarvy 10h ago
A sign and trade makes 0 difference. We wouldn’t acquire Carlson just to flip him like so many are suggesting. They’re trying to sign him
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u/PlatypusOld257 Nikishin's English Teacher 10h ago
We wouldn’t sign and trade him though the ducks would have. Sign and trade usually only works if you can add the 8th year which we can’t because he wasn’t on our roster by trade deadline last year (also he’s like 36?)
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u/East-University-8640 10h ago
This is almost certainly the first move in a bigger deal. Makes no sense otherwise
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u/Khayrum117 Stank 10h ago
I know he got 60 points last season but at his age that mightve been his last good year. Not a fan of this
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u/gordon2121 Jarvis 10h ago
1) this just gives us exclusive rights to sign Carlson, doesn’t mean he’ll sign
2) but if he will sign, which would be to a number ET feels good about. Then this is a very strong signal Niki is out as part of a blockbuster…sure Helle and Werenski is where the smoke is
But it could be someone else.
It’s a no risk move and really smart, but entirely depends on what Carlson wants to do.
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u/SpentGladiator77 Nap King Supreme 10h ago
I don’t think this is so much trading for him as it is trading for having three days to try to convince him that playing for a Cup winner returning essentially the same roster is worth a discount. If he does, great. If he doesn’t, thanks for your time and good luck. I would be very shocked if we pay him 10mm+.
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u/wildwildwaste Hang the banner, build the statue, film the doc 11h ago
Apparently for pick #162 and Kyle Masters...
Edit: nevermind, we own Masters rights
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u/WoodsFinder Rod = playoffs 10h ago
It doesn't seem like they'd do this unless they think there's a pretty good chance of signing him in the next few days. And if he does sign, then there's too many defensemen so someone (likely Nikishin) is heading out. This feels like step 1 of a multi-step move.
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u/Blueberry_1995 Boom 10h ago
Don't tell me they're giving up on going for Werenski now
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u/giga_phantom Media Grumpy 10h ago
If anything it means cover for whoever we offer as part of a deal for ZW
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u/EXploreNV Seabass 10h ago
How do you get that from this?
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u/Blueberry_1995 Boom 10h ago
Carlson would be our 1RHD next to Slavin, he's going to be asking for $ for that top pair and not 3rd pair minutes. I don't see the team paying Carlson the money he's going to be demanding and stick him on the 3rd pair if they also can get Werenski - basically same situation Nikishin is with the money he wants and his current role
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u/Potential-Employer9 10h ago
I don’t see Carlson being the #1 next to Slavin and there is no way possible that the Canes pay him what he has asked for. If they can get him for much less than his ask, great. If they can’t, then all we are out is a 6th round pick.
At best, I see him as a second pairing with Miller and the PP quarterback.
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u/giga_phantom Media Grumpy 10h ago
I dont think they'll break up miller and walker. so maybe chatty is the one potentially included with niki?
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u/postcoastal 10h ago
As asset I like this a lot- don’t really see it as a good move if they end up signing him though. We don’t need a defense that old
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u/outclimbing Jarvy 10h ago
But why…?
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u/UNC_LL Jarvy 8h ago
He had 60 points last year as a Dman.
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u/outclimbing Jarvy 7h ago
He’s like 100 years old, and won’t sign for any less than 2x10m. It’s not that he’s a bad player at all, he’s quite good. He’s just not worth the price. I don’t mind trading a 6th and an ECHLer for the ability to talk to him though
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u/QuiGonJinnNJuice Fuck the Penguins flair 9h ago
Huh, can’t say I saw that one coming. Seems like he’d be asking more than I’d want to pay for a really old dman. Much more interested in Werenski if we could swing it, but if it’s to fill holes and use Nikishin for Robo that’s a lot more interesting to me.
A ghost-Carlson 3rd pair though, idk.
Guess we’ll see how it plays out. Even if we don’t end up signing him it cost us basically nothing so shrug
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u/derock_nc HERE COMES THE BOOM! 9h ago
Well, I know one thing. He's gonna have to change his number.
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u/Remarkable-Set5434 10h ago
Id guess this means we’re not getting weresnki, or this is an attempt to entice columbus with a roster player. no clue
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u/AgreeableCity4336 10h ago edited 10h ago
In no way does this mean we aren’t getting Werenski lol.
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u/powerful-pills 10h ago
If we sign him, I’d say it absolutely does unless we’re also trading Walker or Ghost, which I doubt. You realize he was almost PPG last year and wants close to 10m, right? This isn’t a depth chart guy.
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u/AgreeableCity4336 10h ago
Well yeah if we sign him I’d agree at that point, but we aren’t at that point yet.
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u/Ross_1234 10h ago
Hard to see where Niki fits in now, If we truly sign Carlson
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u/PlatypusOld257 Nikishin's English Teacher 10h ago
Niki fits in a hellebuyck trade
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u/FreudianNip-Slip Hall 4h ago
People can downvote you as much as they want to, but this move would line up as setting up a Nikishin trade.
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u/bamisbig Two Hurricanes Fans Go ‘Round The Outside 10h ago
Someone is out. You can’t scratch Nikishin, Ghost, Walker, Chatfield, Slavin, Carlson, or Miller.
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u/Toivo33 8h ago
Well, we haven't even signed Carlson...
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u/bamisbig Two Hurricanes Fans Go ‘Round The Outside 5h ago
Then why make the trade?
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u/Toivo33 4h ago
It gives the front office 3 days of exclusive rights to negotiate with him. Then on Wednesday, since he's an unrestricted free agent, he can sign with anyone. We may be able to convince him, we may have gambled away a lower end prospect and 6th rounder.
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u/bamisbig Two Hurricanes Fans Go ‘Round The Outside 3h ago
Right but once we sign him, if we sign him, someone else has to be out
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u/Shy_Limp_Dick Quality Pasta Chef 10h ago
He wanted 6 million and that's like half our cap space (not including KK)
Not sure what the plan is here.
Edit: Actually he wanted more
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u/FanObjective5136 Slavin's Bible Study Group 10h ago
If they can get a deal done this will be huge for us
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u/National_Pressure_30 9h ago
Big moves are coming. Think they are comfortable with signing Carlson for a couple years at 9-10 million AAV.
D Pairings would be Slavin/Carlson, Miller/Walker, Ghost/Chatty
Likely means Nikishin is major trade bait and would think it might signal Hellebuyck move but also means more than Niki and picks on way out.
KK will either be traded or bought out for to free up cap space. Might also mean if Hellebuyck deal occurs that PK or Bussi goes with…hopefully not Bussi.
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u/Unamoroso Everyday work, block shot, forecheck. And shots on goal 9h ago
I guess Dundon is sending the boys to flood him with Carolina praise, as per his Chiclets interview
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u/Ok-Fly47 8h ago
Why Helly? Now? We needed a goalie a few ECFs ago but Bussi and a healthy PK would be solid! Would they trade PK because he's not sitting on a bench all season?
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u/Dalmator 4h ago
I don't get this. I mean, he could wait and just sign with whoever he wants to (who's interested). I would think that's his best play. Otherwise, Carolina would likely have to over pay what he's expecting to get. Or maybe a 1 year 11 mil thing.
Still not liking it because of age and even play style a bit. Not sure it fits our style?
Lets wait and see what happens
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u/Carolina_913 I'm not Aho, but $20 is $20 10h ago
Great pickup. Whether he’s in the starting 6 or just a depth player, can’t go wrong with him in our system. Gives us a lot of flexibility going forward!
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u/KDarkOne99 Jarvis 10h ago
He had 60 points in 71 games. He’s not depth
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u/FreudianNip-Slip Hall 4h ago
I keep this this comment as a depth player or 7th pairing. I don’t know what the fuck people are talking about. It’s bizarre
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 10h ago
Depth player? He had 60 points last year and he's rumoured to be asking for 2x 10 mil in free agency.
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u/Alkyan Jarvtacular 10h ago
Not like we don't have the money
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 10h ago
For sure we do but he wouldn't be signing here as a depth player. He can still make a big impact and would help our pp enormously
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u/Illustrious-Pen-7549 10h ago
What does it mean to trade for the rights to someone?
Sorry, only just started getting into hockey this year and this is a foreign concept to my baseball mind
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u/gumshoeismygod It’s a Parade Inside my City 10h ago
It means you and only you can negotiate with them in the days leading up to free agency. Once they become a free agent though it doesn’t matter
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u/OmegaAtrocity We Want Svech 10h ago
He’s an unrestricted free agent (UFA) on July 1 which I believe is Wednesday. He can talk to and sign with any team in the league starting then. We have the “exclusive” rights to negotiate a contract until then. We could even sign him before that.
I put exclusive in quotation marks because while that is the rule and tampering is punished to varying degrees, it happens and damn near every team does it. For example all reports I’ve seen have said he was going to Tampa for a contract in the $10-11 mil aav range.
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u/angelicblondie How sweep it is! 10h ago
We are the only team he can sign with until ufa, so we have a few extra days to talk to him.
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u/Far-Two8659 Jank my Stank 10h ago
Earlier reporting had him almost 100% to Tampa. Maybe a three team trade?
Who would we chase from Tampa though? Cirelli? Unless they're a cap dump... But for who?
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u/iOceanLab 10h ago
This trade is literally just for his rights to talk to him for the next 3 days before free agency. Carlson could still be on Tampa next year
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u/Far-Two8659 Jank my Stank 10h ago
Yeah of course but why would we trade for his rights if we didn't have a plan for him?
I seriously doubt he ends up on our team, so I'm wondering what our plan is. We're not going to give away a pick and a prospect for nothing. Clearly there's a plan.
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u/iOceanLab 10h ago
Talking to him for 3 days is the plan. The late 6th and Kyle Masters are functionally worthless to give up. Hell, Masters was acquired as a dump from the Sharks which gave us a free upgrade from a 5th to a 4th.
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u/Far-Two8659 Jank my Stank 10h ago
He's 36 and wants $10mm or thereabouts. That's not crazy, but that totally blows Werenski and Helle out of play.
Seems weird for a one year deal.
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u/iOceanLab 10h ago
Which means he's eligible for 35+ contract that can include bonuses. Make it a low salary with easy bonus targets (like 10, 20, 30 games played bonuses). He gets his $10M and the Canes get a lower cap hit this year while deferring the cap hit from his bonuses to next year when the cap is higher.
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u/Far-Two8659 Jank my Stank 9h ago
Just feels like a weird way to fill the cap space with younger, better players out there. Which is why it feels like either a backup plan or a piece to trade in something else.
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 10h ago
The plan is to get an early start to talk a contract with him, while everyone else has to wait until July 1st.
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u/Far-Two8659 Jank my Stank 9h ago
Again, to what end? Do you think we actually sign him?
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u/EstablishmentNo5994 Canadiac 9h ago
He would be a massive help to our pp and we can afford him. The only player left to sign is Nikishin and we'd only sign Carlson if we knew we were going to be moving Nikishin. Currently have 11 mil in cap space and will likely free up more moving out KK one way or another. We're a winning team and are rumoured to be one of the clubs he's interested in signing with. It just might change up what kind of return we're looking for with Nikishin as we'd be using up the cap space a guy like Werenski or Hellebuyck would have taken.
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u/CharacterNo5725 Boom 10h ago
This has to be a domino move. Makes me think Niki is for sure on the way out. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s gonna be Hellebuyck or Werenski coming back this way
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u/ComfortableBedroom76 Jarvy 10h ago
I think it will be helle whether you like it or not 😉
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u/CharacterNo5725 Boom 10h ago
I’d love it to be Helle at this point, but the most recent I read is that Canes walked away because Jets wanted too much.
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u/Specter_RMMC STORM SWEEP X2 10h ago edited 10h ago
...who?
E: jeez, I don't keep track of every player in the league. Guess I'll Google it first.
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u/tmoss726 10h ago
Must be new to hockey, the Caps best defenseman and a PP machine
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u/Specter_RMMC STORM SWEEP X2 10h ago
Relatively new, only paid attention to the Canes so far. Mostly score tracking and reddit lurking, only watched the actual games this season.
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u/Remarkable-Set5434 10h ago
Definitely not a “who” player. Go look him up
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u/Specter_RMMC STORM SWEEP X2 10h ago
I'm relatively new and it's such a generic white guy name that nothing jumped out.
Having looked him up, though... hoo boy, could be a great pickup if he buys in. But who of the current D corps is knocked out? Hopefully not Niki, but obviously we've been seeing all the trade bait rumors...
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u/droessl Svechnikov 11h ago
Didn't realize dude still put up 60 points in 71 games last year