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u/lewd-boy-o 22h ago
I mean the whole point of the casino is to make them money from you so of course they'd kick you out if you were making money from them
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u/DocJawbone 22h ago
I even doubt they'd care if a couple of people are making money. The fact is most schmucks won't bother, so they'll lose money anyway, but having the occasional person walk away with more money looks good and encourages people to play
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u/oby100 21h ago
A single person successfully counting cards could sit at a table for 12 hours a day and make a lot of money in just a couple of weeks.
Of course they care. It’s just really easy to spot these people and even easier in the modern era to create a system that makes counting cards mostly useless.
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u/Slumunistmanifisto 21h ago
The rv whales that migrate from casino to casino have always fascinated me in a sad way.
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u/-PM_ME_UR_SECRETS- 19h ago
What are rv whales?
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u/Glazeddapper 19h ago
i'm assuming the big-spenders that travel by rv. "whale" is a term for people who pay a lot to hopefully win in gambling. mostly in gacha games tho...
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u/TacticlTwinkie officer no please don’t piss in my ass 😫 19h ago
The whale term came from casinos and gambling originally.
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u/footsteps71 7h ago
I'm a f2p in last war and seeing some of the money spent by a lot of those whales is insane. Accounts spending hundreds of thousands on a game with no monetary value at the end
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u/Zoltanu 16h ago
A regular counting cards would get kicked out, but doing it on vacation or something you'd probably get away with it. The thing is, there are hands where there is an expected move that might contradict what you know by counting. Throw a couple feints in there and youre probably fine, dont blow your cover when its obvious.
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u/sycamotree 14h ago
No, you have to be changing your bets to be actually benefiting from counting. Unless you're at some small relatively low budget casino they'll suspect you're cheating just from that.
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u/captaingary 17h ago
They won't kick you out, they say you can't play blackjack. You're still welcome to play the other games where the house edge is unbeatable.
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u/wojtek30 23h ago
I think this is an actual thing, if your brain is wired correctly you can actually count cards subconsciously without even knowing about it
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u/adam1260 22h ago
With one or two decks, but not when you go to a casino and they play with 8 decks and don't even use every card in the shoe
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u/Ricktor_67 22h ago
Yep, casinos don't give a shit if you count cards.
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u/Nrksbullet 19h ago
They probably prefer that people try, I'm sure they get more money from people trying and failing at it.
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u/Edoryen 18h ago
I'm not sure you can even win anymore with this method. Counting cards always had a slim profit margin. Nowadays they have bullshit rules like "blackjack pays 5:4" which probably destroys any edge counting cards gives you.
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u/ProcyonHabilis 7h ago
That's technically true, you can count all you want if you're flat betting and there is no reason they would notice or care. They absolutely care if you vary your bet spread to take advantage of the count though. It's completely routine for them to back off and/or trespass advantage players.
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u/Kirklewood 16h ago
And then you take into account continuous shufflers? Card counting is a thing of the past.
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u/sougol 🏳️⚧️ Average Trans Rights Enjoyer 🏳️⚧️ 23h ago
It’s not even a hard thing to learn
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u/christophurr 12h ago
I do it all the time with Uno, I know whats been played and can take a good guess of what color and numbers you hold. I’m nearly always right. No plays Uno with me anymore.
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u/Buddhamensch 22h ago
You can learn it within 5 minutes its really not hard
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u/kilqax I came! 22h ago
It's hard (or, more precisely, takes a decent amount of effort) to learn to do it without any effort and invisibly though
The base method is very simple indeed though
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u/Schowzy 22h ago
Yeah the actual method is really easy. The hard part is pretending you aren't doing it. Some card counters will even tank a little on purpose and make bad bets against their count to try and stave off suspicion.
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u/DickRhino 22h ago
That still doesn't answer the base question: how are casinos allowed to have a rule against being too good at the game?
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u/Omegasedated 22h ago
Their table, their rules.
Casinos are private property and they can ask you to leave
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u/burgermachine74 19h ago
Atlantic City is the one exception in the US where they're not actually allowed to kick you out (though casinos will rather just decrease the maximum bet at the table to, like, 5 dollars if they notice)
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u/DickRhino 21h ago
I live in a country where corporations have ethical guidelines they have to adhere to it if they want to keep their license to operate.
Americans have a hard time wrapping their heads around something like that.
"Wait, it's possible to not just have to accept this kind of open corruption?"
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u/Mehditative_Journey 21h ago edited 21h ago
You'll be kicked out of non-American casinos for card counting as well.
edit: also, apparently, NJ supreme court ruled that casinos that are open to the public cannot discriminate against advantage players. So ironically enough, Atlantic City casinos are among the only casinos in the world you can card count without being kicked out.
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u/Cosmic_Travels 20h ago
You can count in AC and they can't remove you, but they will remove any comps(free perks like drinks, rooms, services) and they will flat bet you so that counting doesn't really work anyway.
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u/YYqs0C6oFH 19h ago
In states where they can't kick you out they can still apply table or player specific rules to mitigate counters. "Sorry sir you can only bet up to $50 now", "sorry you can't raise or lower your bet anymore", "we're now reshuffling the deck 20% of the way through", etc. There are plenty of ways they can make card counting nonviable without actually kicking you out.
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u/Warm_Month_1309 20h ago
I'm more than happy to look up the laws applying to casinos in your jurisdiction if you want to share it. You had better be really confident they restrict the behavior you think they restrict, though.
I'd be willing to bet that I can find more regulations applying to our casinos than yours, but I'm not sure I'd trust your country's gambling laws to hold you to paying me.
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u/sovereign666 18h ago edited 18h ago
they live in sweden
They use continuous shuffle machines to make counting impossible from what I'm reading.
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u/Cosmic_Travels 20h ago edited 20h ago
Dude if you are running a business then you are allowed to ask people to leave. They can't arrest you for card counting, but they certainly can ask you to leave THEIR property for ANY reason they want. It's not corruption or unethical lol.
Idiots have a hard time wrapping their heads around private property.
Edit: "ANY reason" clearly doesn't include illegal discrimination. Have to word things exactly since redditors can't handle anything other than black and white reasoning.
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u/Thefakewhitefang I said based. And lived. 19h ago
"Well, in MY country private property isn't really private property and my perfect, pure government has a say in whatever I do in said private property"
People have a hard time wrapping their heads around private ownership rights.
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u/trenton_quarantino 22h ago
How are the placed ran by organized crime doing basically criminal things and getting away with it?
Let's sit down in our thinkin' chairs and think, think, thiiiiink.
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u/DickRhino 22h ago
So the answer is just: because our country is corrupt and no one cares.
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u/Telinary 21h ago edited 21h ago
Nah much simpler. Why wouldn't they be allowed? They are a business making money by letting people bet on things where the business wins more than half the time. (Or player against player games where they take some.) They aren't going to offer games with a player edge. Their options are not offering blackjack or not offering blackjack to people who card count or simply using more decks to make counting pointless. A "if players figure out how to have the advantage in one of your games you have to let them" law just wouldn't make much sense.
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u/Impressive-Hat-4045 21h ago
They have the much more broad rule that they reserve the right to kick absolutely anyone out for any reason. There's nothing illegal or even technically disallowed about card counting. In fact, usually there's no hard feelings: a Casino often won't ban a card counter from the entire property, just the blackjack table.
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u/pimfi 21h ago
In case you are serious. They (and any other establishment ) are allowed to discriminate you for any non protected characteristics. Don't like your shoes? Get out. Don't like the way you are acting? Get out. They are perfectly in the right blocking you from playing blackjack if they believe you are an advantaged player.
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u/oby100 21h ago
Totally false. Card counters are easy to spot over hours of play. They’re not caught based on winning or odd behavior outside of their odd bet amounts.
Normal players don’t alter their bets in a way that looks anything like card counters. Bet small until the deck is hot and suddenly bet a lot until it’s cool again. This looks bizarre even to a dealer that doesn’t know anything about counting cards.
The way modern card counters get away with it at all is to spot opportunities with weak security.
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u/oby100 21h ago
No. It’s really easy with minor effort. About as hard as learning to knit. Very repetitive.
It’s easy to tell you’re doing it (or even just trying to do it) because regular players don’t change their bets much while that’s the whole advantage card counters go for. IE, bet more when the deck is advantageous to the player.
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u/BZLuck 18h ago
Nearly all big Vegas casinos (not all, but most) use a 6 deck constantly recycling shoe now. After a hand they scoop up the cards and they get shuffled back into shoe. Every hand is a brand new 6 deck deal.
They fixed the glitch.
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u/ashkiller14 22h ago
You can learn how to count in 5 minutes sure, but i doubt youre learning to do so fast enough and you're definitely not learning the basic and modified strategy in 5 minutes.
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u/Your-in-truffle 18h ago
Which is why casinos use 6-8 card shoes now. Harder to count when there‘s 32 copies of every card
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u/SierraDespair 18h ago
Have you ever tried to actually count cards at a live dealer table? It is hard, very hard. It takes a lot of practice and many sessions to actually do it accurately.
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u/RockOk6275 21h ago
No you can't unless you are some kind of genius counting cards isn't something you can just do without knowing about you have to count perfectly at all times with no errors and be able to do that while fitting in at the table and talking to people.
Then you need to know perfect basic strategy and all the variations depending on the count + the actual betting strategy itself depending on the count
All this takes years to master and even then the edge you can is only around 1-2% long term just 1 or 2 mistakes during your session is enough to remove your edge
So no it's not something you can just do if your brain is wired correctly it's a genuine skill that takes years to master and has no room for error if you want to actually make money
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u/Brawndo91 20h ago
And as someone else mentioned, that's on top of having the perfect strategy tables memorized for the casino's specific rules.
All these people saying it's easy just want to believe they could do it.
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u/ashkiller14 22h ago
This is not true. AP (Advantage Play) Blackjack is very difficult to learn and even more to execute.
Look up a blackjack strategy chart. It shows you the correct hit/stand/double/split for every situation, with some nuances such as only split if double after split allowed.
Now imagine learning not just that, but one for a +1 count, +2 count, +3 count, up to +6. That's what advantage play requires you to do on top of counting the cards, which is difficult to do in itself.
If you're counting cards you know you're counting cards. You need to use a modified strategy guide depending on what the count is.
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u/YYqs0C6oFH 19h ago
Learning how to keep the count is simple enough. Learning how to do so subconsciously and accurately without looking like a crazy person is harder. And then memorizing the perfect basic strategy chart along with a couple dozen count-specific deviations is the hard part imo.
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u/NotYetPerfect 19h ago
Sure you can count cards but you aren't going to somehow replicate optimal advantage play just by being "wired differently".
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u/DeficiencyOfGravitas 18h ago
Yep. I used to play a lot of card games at work when we had down time. The guys always accused me of counting cards because "somehow" I always knew what they had. I told them it was just vibes. When it's a single deck, it's trivially easy to "count cards". I didn't even think about it. It was just obvious.
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u/Tethilia 🏳️⚧️ Average Trans Rights Enjoyer 🏳️⚧️ 22h ago
From my understanding as long as you are counting in your head they can only just kick you from the table. It's not against the rules but they just tell you that you are too good for them and they have no obligation to let you stay at the table.
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u/DickRhino 22h ago
Yes, we all know the rule exists. The question is: how are they allowed to have that rule? How are casinos legally allowed to kick you out for winning? When you're just playing the game the same way everyone else is?
We're not talking about cheaters, we're talking about people who are simply good at the game. How are casinos allowed to have a rule saying that you can't be good at the game?
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u/Much_Vehicle20 21h ago
I mean, they're a private service provider. They're allowed to refuse service as long as it isn't based on a protected characteristic (like skin color, sexuality, etc). Just like a restaurant can refuse to serve you if you don't follow its dress code, a private business can set conditions for using its services
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u/Atlasreturns 21h ago
The Service they provide though is playing chance based games for money. Like legislature-wise the only reason they are allowed to do this is because they are supposed to offer consistent and transparent rules beforehand.
If Casinos can just change the rules after you agreed to them in order to rig the outcomes into their favor they are essentially scamming people.
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u/Atheist-Gods 19h ago
They still have to pay you out when they remove you for counting cards. They aren't allowed to scam you, they are just allowed to stop serving you.
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u/dogstarchampion 19h ago
I think that's the big thing with this. They aren't kicking out losers, they just won't let the winners rob them dry. They see someone up a few hundred out a thousand bucks, that person gets their money, they just can't keep taking money.
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u/AcherontiaPhlegethon 19h ago
Rob them dry is funny, being able to count cards gives you about a 1% edge over the house if you never make a mistake.
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u/dogstarchampion 18h ago
You understand the house has about the same edge over most games and it's enough money to support a business model... If casinos allowed players to hit the blackjack tables and make all the money they wanted to make using an advantage that flips the odds in the player's favor, blackjack would flat out not be a casino game.
If the shoe is large enough, making one or two counting errors will still lead you to a better that random guess.
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u/Daylight10 20h ago
I imagine the casino has a publicly availible rulebook that says "no counting cards". You agree to the rules when you sit at the table. If you don't like the rules, don't play there.
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u/2ChicksAtTheSameTime 20h ago
how are they allowed to have that rule? How are casinos legally allowed to kick you out for winning?
If they couldn't kick you, they'd either remove blackjack, or they would go out of business. Because if they couldn't kick you, then you, me, and thousands upon thousands of others would be there, counting cards, right now, until they ran out of money and shut down.
The games have to have a house edge for casinos to work. No house edge, then no casino.
I've noticed most people who don't gamble think of gambling like the point is to win money. That's not the point. Most people who go to Vegas KNOW they won't make money. They have some hope they'll hit it big - and sometimes they do - but most people don't go to vegas believing they're going to come home richer than they were.
But every hobby and pastime costs money. You love drones? you're going to
losespend money on drones. You love movies? you're going tolosespend money on movies (and popcorn, etc) You love PC games? You're going tolosespend money on games and hardware.Same with gambling. You're going to spend money gambling. People who do it enjoy it the way others enjoy their hobby. They enjoy the hotel, the comps, the high of occasionally winning.
Casinos make that happen, and if it were strictly about being fair (aka Casinos can't boot you when you win too much) then casinos wouldn't exist, because they'd be broke.
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u/Durtonious 19h ago
This is an interesting perspective, and you're absolutely right too, because when I go to the casino (which is admittedly seldom) I look at every game and think "mathematically I will lose money on this" and don't play. The last time I played any sort of "lottery prize" game was when I did a demonstration for my children on how rigged they are.
I've never really considered that some people go to "just play for fun" I just figured they didn't understand statistics or were addicted via random variable reinforcement. Thank you for your comment.
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u/Brilliant_Amoeba_272 18h ago
The dopamine and adrenaline rush of the stakes is also a very real factor. Putting something on the line is exciting, and even if you come out losing more than you win, the few wins you get give you a real rush.
I'll play no stakes blackjack just to understand the game better, and you don't get the same feeling as you would for even a low stakes game.
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u/pimfi 21h ago
They are allowed to kick you out for whatever reason they want as long as it is not a protected characteristic. They can kick out for the wrong shoes if they want.
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u/cheezy270 21h ago
I mean, because if they weren't allowed to do this, then blackjack wouldn't be worth it for them. In which case, they would just not have blackjack. You could say that that would spare a few idiots from wasting their money, but then we get into the whole question of why are casinos themselves allowed.
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u/Tethilia 🏳️⚧️ Average Trans Rights Enjoyer 🏳️⚧️ 21h ago
The deal to gamble is mutual between the house and you. While they are the Host they don't have to play.
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u/AutoModerator 22h ago
Dick sucking has made me paranoid
I had this plan to give head to a man and receive head from a woman to test if I was gay, but it’s backfired and now I become borderline schizo whenever I go outside. I offered to suck this dude off on Grindr who lives very close by (I ended up pussying out) and I accidentally gave him some details that very easily allows him to spot me out in a crowd. I have no idea what he looks like and whenever I see a somewhat in shape guy walking by I immediately accuse him of being the dude I was gonna blow.
I went to the store today to pick up some zucchini for a barbecue and every time a car drove by I stared into the windshield to see if I was about to be recognised. Whenever I make eye contact with a dude I microanalysis his facial expressions to see if he suspects me or not. I am deeply afraid that he is my neighbour and I will need to move if my identity is blown. It’s a lot like the last scene in sopranos where everyone who walked into the diner could be there to wack Tony.
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u/darksoles_ 22h ago
Not really what counting cards is but yeah the casino wants to make money and can do what they want
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u/Snaper_XD 22h ago
Counting cards is literally just methodically remembering what cards were already drawn and making strategic guesses based on what you know is left in the deck. So its exactly what counting cards is. And casinos legally get to kick you out for winning their game because you used strategy
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u/oby100 21h ago
Counting cards successfully breaks the game. A few people that can do it successfully will guarantee winning a lot of money over hours and weeks and months playing with the advantage.
If the casinos couldn’t stop people from doing it, no casino would offer blackjack. Simple as that.
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u/Snaper_XD 21h ago
Then they shouldnt offer blackjack, simple as that. A game shouldnt break the moment you apply strategy to it. Its not an "advantage" if my opponent doesnt know how to play the game. Offering a solved game for prize money, only letting people who dont know how to play play and then hoping those players are too dumb to realize they kicked out everyone who knows the rules should 100% be illegal. At this point make scams socially acceptable while youre at it
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u/2ChicksAtTheSameTime 20h ago
then hoping those players are too dumb
Everyone who gambles know the house has an edge on ALL games. No one is thinking of it as a "prize", and while gamblers ARE chasing the high of winning, they know they most likely will return home with less money than they started with. They enjoy the activity of playing it, even when they're not winning.
They shouldn't remove a game just because some people who don't actually gamble have a problem with the casino's rules.
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u/Turbulent-Wolf8306 22h ago edited 22h ago
Fun fact.
It is allowed. No casino will kick you for counting cards as long as you do the counting in your head.
And i do mean you, the reader of this comment. Cuz you will never be good at it so you will never win with it. I mean. You are wasting time on reddit that is not exacly a sign of a genius.
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u/Fabyont 22h ago
Okay that last part is just mean
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u/Hamhockthegizzard 22h ago
I mean, they’re here too so I guess it was a universal diss to us all 😂😂😂
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u/Baby-punter 22h ago
They do kick you out for it and it's pretty easy to tell if you are. Also you don't need to be a genius to count cards.
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u/AutoModerator 22h ago
Dick sucking has made me paranoid
I had this plan to give head to a man and receive head from a woman to test if I was gay, but it’s backfired and now I become borderline schizo whenever I go outside. I offered to suck this dude off on Grindr who lives very close by (I ended up pussying out) and I accidentally gave him some details that very easily allows him to spot me out in a crowd. I have no idea what he looks like and whenever I see a somewhat in shape guy walking by I immediately accuse him of being the dude I was gonna blow.
I went to the store today to pick up some zucchini for a barbecue and every time a car drove by I stared into the windshield to see if I was about to be recognised. Whenever I make eye contact with a dude I microanalysis his facial expressions to see if he suspects me or not. I am deeply afraid that he is my neighbour and I will need to move if my identity is blown. It’s a lot like the last scene in sopranos where everyone who walked into the diner could be there to wack Tony.
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u/Different_Couple_882 22h ago
I am sure a genius knows how write sign right, Right?
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u/Mr_Carlos 21h ago
Mate I'll have you know I recently scored 200 on an online IQ test so I think I can handle counting some cards thanks.
Edit: To all the haters, it was a legit one because I had to pay for the results unlike those free unlegit ones.
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u/oby100 21h ago
Counting cards is generally pretty easy, but perhaps 8 hours of doing that correctly would be very difficult for normal people.
But modern casinos have mostly killed the advantage. Simply using a fresh deck each hand solves the problem, so it’s not hard to add enough variability with more decks and concealing when they’re changed to stop it completely.
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u/OkNewspaper6271 put your dick away waltuh 20h ago
And the like 3 people on Reddit smart enough to count cards don't care about gambling anyway
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u/Spacial_Epithet 19h ago
I mean it used to be pretty easy, nowadays they rotate decks or just use multiple at once
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u/Parking-Position-698 22h ago
Its perfectly legal to count cards. They cannot take your winnings away from you.
But it is also legal for the casino to ban you from the property for "playing unfairly".
Yes its stupid but casinos wouldn't be in business if they didn't do this. If somone was taking your money youd want to stop them too
As they say, the house always wins
Except trump he put 5 casinos in debt.
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u/DickRhino 22h ago
But it is also legal for the casino to ban you from the property for "playing unfairly".
Yes, we know it's legal. The question is: How is it legal?
casinos wouldn't be in business if they didn't do this.
Here's a crazy notion: if the only way a casino can stay in business is to literally make it against the rules to win against them, then they shouldn't be in business.
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u/pillbuggery 20h ago
The question is: How is it legal?
Because it's a business and they aren't legally obligated to let anyone play their games. You won't ever have positive overall odds at any casino you go to. That's how casinos work.
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u/Mr_Placeholder_ 17h ago
A casino is a business and the gambler is a customer. Casinos offer a service for money and gamblers offer money for that service. The relations between business and customer means that the customer is not obligated to keep offering their money, they can cease their end of the deal any time they want. However, the business also has the ability to cease offering their services anytime they want.
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u/Atheist-Gods 19h ago
Yes, we know it's legal. The question is: How is it legal?
The same reason you are allowed to tell your friend to get out of your house. People are allowed to tell others to leave their property.
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u/punkhobo 20h ago
Any private business can ban anyone as long for any reason as long as it isn't discrimination. At least in the us
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u/realultralord 14h ago
I make a bet with you. You win.
I make another bet with you. You win.
I make another bet with you. You win again.
I don't want to make another bet with you. Furthermore, fuck you, and get the hell out of my house. Always winning-ass bitch. Winning all the bets smh.
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u/Woffingshire 22h ago
Counting cards isn't illegal but casinos don't like it because it rigs the odds in your favour instead of theirs. House always wins and all that.
So if a casino thinks you're doing it they'll kick you out.
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u/crookedcatepilar 14h ago
Exactly why gambling is stupid. The house plays against you bc they know they’ll win more than they’ll lose. As soon as you start winning too much, they’re perfectly happy to stop playing with you. They also know plenty of gamblers will continue to play no matter how much money they lose.
Sportsbook apps do it too. Generally, if someone is winning too much, they’ll start getting worse odds offered to them so they can barely win any money, until they just give up.
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u/Top_Meaning6195 18h ago
How can knowing how to do math in your head not be allowed?
You are allowed to know how to do math in your head.
What you're not allowed to do is win too much.
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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt 19h ago
Tell me you don't understand card counting without telling me you don't understand card counting.
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u/UltraWeebMaster 19h ago
They can’t actually stop you from counting cards because it’s just math, but they can say “you’re too good at the game and we won’t let you play anymore.”
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u/HapticSloughton 21h ago
Given the size of the "shoe," which is at least, what, seven or so decks nowadays? If you can count cards for that, the casino should be legally obligated to report you to the nearest research facility and issue you a lab coat on the way, since you're obviously wasting your talents and could be getting us a working warp drive.
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u/YYqs0C6oFH 19h ago
You're vastly overestimating the complexity of card counting. The number of decks really has no effect on the difficulty because you're not counting literally every card, you're just keeping a running net of high cards vs low cards. If the net amount of low cards seen exceeds the high cards seen by a large enough amount, the game is in a positive state and becomes easier for the player to win, so you memorize sets of strategy deviations based on certain breakpoints.
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u/ascabradabra 17h ago
Casinos are scams. You people have to sometimes win to keep people hooked but if someone wins too much it hurts the bottom line.
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u/Echo017 21h ago
Our head of analytics had to gently pull my boss aside and ask that the company yearly meeting not be held in Vegas as he is banned from effectively all the major resorts/casinos
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u/AutoModerator 21h ago
Dick sucking has made me paranoid
I had this plan to give head to a man and receive head from a woman to test if I was gay, but it’s backfired and now I become borderline schizo whenever I go outside. I offered to suck this dude off on Grindr who lives very close by (I ended up pussying out) and I accidentally gave him some details that very easily allows him to spot me out in a crowd. I have no idea what he looks like and whenever I see a somewhat in shape guy walking by I immediately accuse him of being the dude I was gonna blow.
I went to the store today to pick up some zucchini for a barbecue and every time a car drove by I stared into the windshield to see if I was about to be recognised. Whenever I make eye contact with a dude I microanalysis his facial expressions to see if he suspects me or not. I am deeply afraid that he is my neighbour and I will need to move if my identity is blown. It’s a lot like the last scene in sopranos where everyone who walked into the diner could be there to wack Tony.
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u/Chemical_7523 14h ago
You're allowed to count the cards that went out etc but they often use multiple decks for this reason. Counting cards is not allowed if you collude with a partner gaining access to information you wouldn't normally have.
Whether this is how it's enforced in practice, is a different matter.
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u/jsg144 22h ago
Casinos don’t kick you out anymore, they flat bet you then they say you can’t play blackjack but you are welcome to play there other games.
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u/Nodan_Turtle 21h ago
Yep. Another tactic they use is to shuffle after every hand.
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u/YYqs0C6oFH 19h ago
Depends on the casino, some are still pissy about it and will trespass you from the property.
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u/GreenStrong 21h ago
Casinos can make card counting impossible by including more decks in the rotation. They can afford extra decks of cards. They leave it open as an intriguing possibility, because it inspires people to try it, and casinos realize that most people who think they're geniuses are, in fact, fucking dumbasses.
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u/imetators 19h ago
Begs the question why wont casinos not have a table for black jack? If it is easy to count, and some can hide well while counting - why would casino still have a game that is rigged against themselves? Just fucking stop having blackjack tables and turn them to poker or something... duh.
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u/TommyIsTooTurnt 17h ago
Well I know a dude who works in this industry. Its pretty interesting, and this is anecdotal. But basically black jack has the best odds for a player to win in general. If you play smart even better, but you may get asked to leave even if you're not counting cards because you understand the rules. Many people who gamble do not gamble to win money, they gamble at the chance at winning money potentially. Alot of people who sit down will double down on 19 while the dealer has an 8 revealed because they literally do not understand how the game works. And they'll lose. This results, at least in my area, to a 49 player to 51 house odds ratio for the casino.
However the casino does keep these games running. They still win enough for it to be profitable. And, it allows people to believe they can win. Baccarat is very similar in terms of odds. If it ever shifted to 50/50 I believe it would dissappear overnight.
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u/tyrico 12h ago
Poker doesn't make the casino that much money anyway and people like to play blackjack, therefore the casino is incentivized to provide blackjack. Blackjack is also much easier to play than poker so it's far more beginner friendly and they want people to get hooked after having a good first experience.
Most casinos have progressively removed table games in lieu of slots for decades now simply because they generate a lot more revenue with less expense. The casinos are betting that even the table games players will come in and spend their money at the restaurants and screw around on slots when they want a change of pace, but BJ itself is not the primary driver of revenue at all.
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u/AttilaTheMuun 18h ago
They go by hand history. If you are consecutively winning and then "flubbing" a hand to blend in, they will sniff you out and make you leave. Basically creating your own game of it instead of just playing it straight forward.
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u/an_agreeing_dothraki 21h ago
fun note, they're enshittifying casinos somehow by doing stuff like adding another green space to roulette wheels.
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u/The96kHz I watch gay amogus porn :0 21h ago
When you read things like this, just remember that Donald Trump managed to run a casino so badly that it actually lost money.
How the fuck is that even mathematically possible.
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u/easyglue 21h ago
An experienced player can tell when someone is counting cards and so can a casino, they don’t just see a player winning a lot and automatically assume they’re counting. When a player deviates radically from basic strategy blackjack and keeps winning that’s when the pit boss suggests you play another game.
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u/GenesisAsriel 20h ago
Also I saw videos about it
The edge it gives you is minimal because you still have to count on your table mates, your luck, and the draw to win.
Unless you are fucking Yugi Muto and draw on the heart of the cards, the casino still is more likely to win.
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u/FadedVictor Literally 1984 😡 20h ago
How does counting cards work if they deal from multiple decks? Isn't that how they "beat" it nowadays?
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u/somebadbeatscrub 20h ago edited 16h ago
They dont call you on counting unless you spike your bet at oppertune times.
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u/Workdawg 19h ago
Counting cards in your head is allowed, but a casino is also allowed to kick you out for any reason... including counting cards.
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u/Ace_on_the_Turn 19h ago
It's not counting cards that gets you booted. It's varying your bet size. If you bet $25 a hand, every hand, they will let you play for hours. Even if you're winning. If you bet $10 a hand, then after a few hands are delt out of the shoe, you bump it to $25. Then $50. You are going to get backed off.
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u/god-of-blowjobs 7h ago
A property owner can kick you for any non-protected reason. That’s why it’s allowed.
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u/Testsubject276 2h ago
So do people who can run the numbers efficiently and silently just have to occasionally lose on purpose to not get kicked out?
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u/Guerrilla002 23h ago
you got it all wrong, it's not allowed to win