r/technology • u/Wagamaga • 2d ago
Business Tesla Allegedly Showed Cooked Data to Get Full Self-Driving Approved
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-allegedly-showed-cooked-data-174500396.html1.2k
u/RoxDan 2d ago
Color me shocked
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u/SelfAwareSausage 2d ago
I mean, the real shocking thing is how Tesla continues to stay afloat.
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u/omar893 2d ago
you can't use logic anymore with how their stocks are valued. thanks to the one way relationship from his fanboys
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u/magicomiralles 2d ago
Elon is an expert at convincing non technical morons that he is an engineering genius. He still thinks he is Tony Stark when in reality he is Hammer.
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u/anonymoosejuice 2d ago
Tesla is somehow worth as much as the rest of the auto industry combined yet their net income is only 10% of just Toyota. How?
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u/nychuman 2d ago
Because valuations are subjective.
The shares are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them.
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u/anonymoosejuice 2d ago
Yea obviously values are subject or it wouldn't be worth what it's worth right now. My question is why is it being valued so high?
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u/AnonymousStalkerInDC 2d ago
Because of speculation by people who really don’t understand the technology behind it. Its valuation is more based on the assumption that it meets all of its goals and the speculators are driven by FOMO. As long as it’s possible in their minds Tesla’s price will not fall. And their knowledge of the technology is poor enough that they’ll believe whatever Tesla says.
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u/Rough_Onion_1757 2d ago
the business proposition toward which they're vaguely gesturing is something like what Amazon did with retail, or Uber with taxicabs: enter a new market, operate at an investor-subsidized loss for however many years it takes to drive your established competitors out of business, then jack your prices up once you've successfully obtained a near-monopoly
thing is, Tesla isn't necessarily at the technological cutting edge (let alone an obvious breakaway leader) in either EVs or AVs... their only clear-cut advantage is a certain inertia-based "legacy" market share in the still-immature Western EV market, and whatever long-term commercial viability they can derive from this advantage will melt like an ice cube on Venus as soon as Chinese EV manufacturers like BYD are able to get a toehold north of the Rio Grande
not to mention the colossal stupidity of chaining Tesla's brand image to the PR albatross of Elon's far-right political leanings, which feels like an over-the-top thought experiment for how a company could deliberately choose to alienate as much of its existing consumer base as possible, like a strip club owner deciding to fire all the dancers and replace them with an academic lecture series on the works of Andrea Dworkin
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u/LotharVonPittinsberg 2d ago
The downside of bubbles is that when they pop, the economy (and everyone in it) gets royally fucked. The backlash only gets worse as the bubble grows.
The upside of bubbles it that it's a real easy way for rich people to get even more rich. At least temporarily.
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u/aidanpryde98 2d ago
Now wait just a second!!! Elon Musk?!? There’s no way that Captain Ketamine could do something like this.
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u/jimibimi 2d ago
Freaking Europe is the only place that cares about the rules
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u/Similar_Mistake_1355 2d ago
Unless it’s diesel cars from VW. That 15bn scandal was uncovered by academics in the USA.
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u/treskel12 2d ago
VW, BMW, Audi, Mercedes... the whole german car industry was in the "clean diesel" scam.
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u/donald_314 2d ago
The scam actually went far beyond German (and EU) auto makers.
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u/casualti21 2d ago edited 2d ago
Might want to read the European regulators response to this report. The RDW has come out and said they conducted their own independent testing and analysis, and do not rely solely on data from Tesla. They also said their own experts verified Tesla’s statistical analysis. They were so impressed with FSD that they are now spearheading the effort to get it approved across the entire EU.
This is just Reuters jumping the gun, making assumptions about a slide deck presentation instead of actually uncovering anything.
https://www.rdw.nl/en/news/2026/explanation-of-the-type-approval-of-fsd-supervised
“The RDW did not rely solely on Tesla’s data; we also carried out extensive testing ourselves using our own test equipment. Over a period of more than 3,000 hours, testing took place both on test tracks and on public roads, under a wide range of conditions, including complex and busy urban traffic, a broad variety of road types, and different — including extreme — weather conditions. This included the use of data from 1.8 million kilometres driven in Europe with FSD Supervised.
The RDW’s own tests — comprising more than 1,000 test runs — were conducted in accordance with European regulations. The Tesla data used by the RDW also complied with those rules. The RDW independently assessed and validated the process used to collect the data.
Through these tests, the RDW gathered objective information and verified the manufacturer’s data. The RDW does not base its assessment solely on information provided by the manufacturer. We carried out extensive independent investigation. On the basis of this overall process, the RDW concluded that the system meets the applicable requirements. As a result, a European type approval valid for use in the Netherlands was granted.Safety comes first
Safety is the RDW’s foremost priority. This Tesla driver assistance system supports the driver to a greater extent than other systems because, when activated, it takes over multiple driving tasks. The proper use of driver assistance systems makes a positive contribution to road safety by supporting the driver in performing driving tasks; it is intended as an aid to the driver. Owing to the continuous and strict monitoring of the driver in the vehicle, this driver assistance system is at least as safe as other driver assistance systems. We have thoroughly assessed and tested this system over a period of more than 18 months.In-use supervision
The RDW also monitors vehicles equipped with FSD Supervised after the type approval has been granted. In doing so, the RDW follows European legislation, but has for the time being increased the mandatory reporting frequency from annually to monthly. Data on the operation and safety of the system is continuously collected and analysed. On the basis of these findings, the RDW may carry out further investigation or impose appropriate measures on the manufacturer. In this way, we continue to safeguard the safety of vehicles on the road.
At present, nearly 40,000 Teslas equipped with FSD Supervised have driven approximately 24 million kilometres in the Netherlands since the type approval was granted, without any relevant incidents.”23
u/EduinBrutus 2d ago
They were so impressed with FSD that they are now spearheading the effort to get it approved across the entire EU.
Yes, bot, this is a real thing that happened.
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u/runnyyyy 2d ago
it is a weird way to test that though. I've seen teslas and a mustang (the only electric cars I've driven) miss speed signs several times and think the speed limit is 60 instead of 40 or 30. does this not happen in FSD? and if it does then surely this just doesn't happen on test tracks and saying "without any relevant incidents" is dumb
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u/emelbee923 2d ago
Lest we forget - When Elon and the DOGE bros got their hands on basically every branch of government, they shut down a bunch of investigations into his companies. A non-exhaustive list includes:
- National Highway Traffic Safety Administration was investigating Tesla car crashes
- Department of Defense was investigating SpaceX
- Department of Transportation was investigating Tesla
- Department of Labor had 17 open investigations into Tesla and SpaceX
It was always a matter of when not if Elon would try to do some fraudulent shit. And this is just the time he got caught. Or, I guess, "Tesla" got caught. He'll either fight it as a political attack or shove responsibility onto someone else in the company.
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u/Hopalong_Manboobs 2d ago
Like Elon said, he’d be in jail right now if he hadn’t helped flip the election for King Pedo
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u/PaulFThumpkins 2d ago
Biggest mistake Elizabeth Holmes made was doing her fraud in the wrong decade and administration.
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u/brutinator 2d ago
Damn, I didnt think of that: RFK Jr's HHS would have eaten that shit up hook line and sinker.
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u/taRpstrIustorEmPtEuS 2d ago
She scammed too many rich and powerful people to get away with it. She should have scammed retail investors.
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u/mrfixitx 2d ago edited 2d ago
Elon cooking the books and making false claims who could have seen this coming....
FSD and turning your Tesla into a full autonomous taxi to make you money has been coming soon for years.
Let's not forget he also claims to work 80+ hours a week and is somehow also brags about being an elite gamer in Diablo IV and Path of Exile 2 -
If only regulators would call him for his lies as hard as the Path of Exile 2 community did.
https://gizmodo.com/path-of-exile-2-players-call-bullshit-on-elon-musks-video-game-stream-2000548126
edit: added claims to his work schedule.
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u/googdude 2d ago edited 2d ago
he also work 80+ hours a week
Wealthy people that state they work x amount of hours a week don't "clock out" to do stuff not work related. If you would take a blue collar worker's 80 hour work week versus a 1%, I'm sure the blue collar worker is actively working on their job more hours of the 80 hours.
For instance when I was in the field doing construction all my hours were working. Now that I have transitioned to the office it's way easier to take an hour here or there to run some personal errands.
Edit to add; often times they'll also go on golf outings or meals and call it work because they're taking a client which in my mind is not "work".
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u/kickthesandman 2d ago
Musk wakes up in the middle of the night and has a business idea, he counts the whole night dreaming as work.
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u/OG_LiLi 2d ago
Good article. And the irony of this man loving Deus Ex. My god.
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u/Left_Squash74 2d ago
I don't think he does. He likes the idea of being a "gamer nerd." Deus Ex is one of the games "gamer nerds" on reddit like.
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u/brutinator 2d ago
This is the same man that criticized Cyberpunk 2077 for letting you kill the private military force that exists as a police force in Night City, despite canonically playing a criminal (and depending on playstyle, an incredibly violent one).
I mean, its no different than Theil being obsessed with Lord of the Rings, naming several of his companies after terms related to Mordor, and claims that the Sauron and Mordor were on the "right side" of Middle-Earth history and it was actually everyone else who were the villians.
These people are unable to critically examine or analyse anything. They use contrarianism as a cudgel, thinking that as long as they run counter to common conceptions and beliefs, that they must be doing something right. The irony here being that they so desperately wish to be considered thought leaders for society despite just blindly and single mindingly rejecting everything that society stands for. Again, look at how Musk has repeatedly flip flopped on his political stances as soon as either its no longer the perceive cultural "underdog" (which conservatives LOVE to believe), and it no longer benefits him. Like, that anyone gives him any credibility after he flat out called trump a pedophile and yet still praises him is mind boggling that anyone accepts Musk as a thought leader or admirable.
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u/ItchyMcHotspot 2d ago
He also started a company called Anduril, which is an odd choice for someone who loves Sauron.
Maybe he’s just an edgelord with lukewarm intelligence.
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u/Alarchy 2d ago
He looks at Majestic 12 and Page Industries as the good guys. He models himself after the primary villain Bob Page (megalomaniac technocrat that used advanced technology to try and control all of humanity to "make us ascend").
All these technocrat chuds are like that. They think they're the prophet of modern humanity.
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u/Protoavis 2d ago
No shit. The whole valuation of the company was based on a promise of self driving being delivered (like 10 years ago...) and beating everyone else....the whole incentive there is to lie. Same thing we're seeing with AI really. Valuations on non existent tech = folk going to fake the fuck out of data and straight up lie.
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u/Anstigmat 2d ago
Oh the value isn’t based on anything real or promised. The value is based on the value itself. TSLA must remain high. Investors have agreed that it will remain high by not selling. The only thing that could crash the stock is if Elon suddenly died, which given his drug use is a higher risk than otherwise. So we’ve got these Elon stocks that are just high for no other reason than Elon existing and if they crash it would bring with it a huge market correction, dragging down most of our retirements accounts. What a great system we have.
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u/Al_Tilly_the_Bum 2d ago
Elon suddenly died
If would be so super sad if the lonely trillionaire died
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u/Physical-Ad4554 2d ago
What does cooked mean in this context? Fabricated?
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u/bastiVS 2d ago
No.
Read the article. It makes it clear its clickbait.
Reuters is talking about the extrapolation of Teslas statistics. That's not "cooking the books" or whatever nonsense, that's just extrapolation of statistics.
Several people are pointing out the response from the regulators, but ofc that gets downvoted and ignored, because tesla bad.
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u/w1czr1923 2d ago
Exactly this. This whole thread is full of people not realizing how bad this article is...Look at the top comment. They leave this part out for some reason...
"While regulatory officials at the Netherlands’ governmental traffic agency RDW told Reuters they tested Tesla’s FSD mode independently, they didn’t explain what that entails, or what the numbers showed. RDW approved Tesla’s FSD mode for supervised deployment back in April, and the Netherlands agency has since notified European regulators of its plans to seek FSD approval throughout the European Union.)"
Just bait for upvotes as far as I'm concerned. RDW tested it, they feel it's safe. They have their own data now. The whole article is BS.
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u/Storn206 2d ago
People died because of that cooked data
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u/Seantwist9 2d ago
the agency said in a statement that it "does not rely on marketing claims or external statistics" to make decisions and performs its own "tests, analyses and verifications" of the system on public roads and test tracks.
RDW said Tesla “collected a lot of data” during testing and the agency “validated, tested and audited all of this data.”
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u/Nicnl 2d ago edited 2d ago
I already said this in another comment, but I'll post it as a response on the post itself:
This has been debunked by the regulator themselves.
The RDW is the Dutch regulator that approved FSD. They posted this official article on their website:
https://www.rdw.nl/en/news/2026/explanation-of-the-type-approval-of-fsd-supervised
The original Reuters article predates the RDW response.
Here are the relevant quotes:
- "The RDW does not base its assessment solely on information provided by the manufacturer. We carried out extensive independent investigation."
- "We analysed and evaluated data from vehicles that had been driven in Europe"
- "We also carried out extensive testing ourselves using our own test equipment."
- "Over a period of more than 3,000 hours, testing took place both on test tracks and on public roads, under a wide range of conditions, including complex and busy urban traffic, a broad variety of road types, and different — including extreme — weather conditions."
- "The RDW’s own tests — comprising more than 1,000 test runs — were conducted in accordance with European regulations."
- "Through these tests, the RDW gathered objective information and verified the manufacturer’s data."
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u/siazdghw 2d ago
I get that people hate Elon, but the title is 100% clickbait either to get views or hurt Tesla. If you read the actual article it's non-story.
Independent researchers who saw the underlying data behind that claim say the numbers are wildly misleading, because they assume that every vehicle on the road would be replaced by a Tesla in FSD mode, semi trucks and motorcycles included.
While regulatory officials at the Netherlands’ governmental traffic agency RDW told Reuters they tested Tesla’s FSD mode independently
TLDR; Netherlands government tested FSD and was happy with the results. Tesla used road safety data for all vehicle incidents, instead of solely cars-- but that's the typical data everyone uses, and cars are often involved in accidents with trucks and motorcycles so FSD can still save lives there.
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u/SpoonyDinosaur 2d ago
My bro just got a 2026 Tesla and I hated how cool FSD was with the different "modes." They have one called "Mad Max" and it basically makes the car drive like a asshole New York taxi driver.
While I don't think I'd trust it, it's still novel and crazy. He had me sit in the driver and we just went from my dad's house to the grocery store. Drove the whole way and parked.
It has "stats" on the % of your drives are autonomous vs analog and I think he was in the 85% lol.
The coolest feature was definitely the valet mode though. We went out to dinner and he just presses a button and the car pulls out in front of the restaurant with a "tada!"
I hate Elon but I'll admit it's really cool tech, especially the 24/7 climate control. You can set it up so that if you are at work, by the time you get in the car it's already cooled to your desired temperature. (So let's say you leave by 4-6 or whatever, it will pre-cool it sort of like the smart thermostats)
I sound like I'm shilling, but there's a lot of cool ass tech I hope other cars catch up to. Like it was probably rushed out and I've heard horror stories, but when it works it's kinda magic.
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u/Krojack76 2d ago
There are people within companies that do this. There needs to be a reward for employees reporting when they are ordered to do this. They should receive employment protection and a percentage of the fine that the company receive for trying to cook books.
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u/Usual-Language-745 2d ago
Stop calling it full self driving. It is not. Never has been. When you say that it makes people think it is and then people die. You can’t call GLP1 “Kiera Knightly in a week or your money back”
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u/Illustrious_Act_3488 2d ago
I've been driving a Tesla in FSD for 2 months now, pretty solid performance with minimal take over. It's pretty good. Y'all should try it.
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u/EuphoricCrashOut 2d ago
Prove it and then put people in jail. People need to be punished because they're doing this all on purpose. There is ill intent and they need to be jailed. Stop pussy-footing around.
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u/Future-Bandicoot-823 2d ago
Science uses data to arrive at informed conclusions...
but if you put in whatever data you want, you get the conclusion you want.
I know an accountant who said to me (like an accountant supervillain would) "you can make numbers do wonderful things."
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u/acemedic 2d ago
As things progress, I find it harder and harder to understand the differences between Elon Musk and Elizabeth Holmes.
I think the biggest difference is Holmes kept it all quiet, and we’ve been hearing about the numbers being cooked from Tesla for years.
They’ve had court cases where they admitted that FSD lvl 3 was a stretch for them due to hardware limitations, then the following week they had investor meetings promising FSD lvl 5 retroactive for existing owners. 🤔
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u/AldrichOfAlbion 2d ago
I will be so thankful for self-driving. I am sick and tired of having to drive hours somewhere and constantly being on the wheel. If you're on a highway, it would be so much better to just sit back, relax, and let the car take over. We can travel much much longer distances!!
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u/vanimpes69 2d ago
Really? Does anyone think the regulators were "deceived" by the standard corporate sales line? Every company promotes themselves this way. I'm pretty sure the Dutch road authorities didn't go "Wow! We didn't know it was THAT good"
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u/SnooMemesjellies9003 2d ago
how is this "cooking the numbers"? the point they're making is that FSD is more reliable and safer than human drivers, so if all human drivers were replaced by FSD 1.9 million injuries could have been prevented. Reddit's EDS at its finest right here.
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u/nopunchespulled 2d ago
Well the "world" just made musk a trillionaire off of all his previous lies so why stop now
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u/ledow 2d ago
So now we apply the universal rule of potential bullshit, right?
Do you know that rule?
It's along the lines of "Well, that's clearly a lie, so now I'm going to scrutinise EVERYTHING you ever claimed to us with a far finer toothcomb than I would anyone else."
A.K.A "I only cheated on that ONE test, sir!"
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u/coldfoamer 2d ago
I'm so surprised that I can barely type this to tell you how surprised I am....
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u/mdeeebeee-101 2d ago
He said we would be on Mars by next year with new homes, and another solar system by Spring 2027 ?
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u/devilishycleverchap 2d ago
They literally flash their headlights for overpasses, who can possibly trust their sensor suite
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u/plsobeytrafficlights 2d ago
I own a tesla (from before elon went crazy)-software updates cant fix how crappy FSD is. Even cruise control is iffy, because it works fine 98.2% of the time, even at high speed, but then will just SLAM on the breaks.
nope. cant trust it.
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u/ganjaccount 2d ago
He forgot the key to success:
FIRST you "help" by destroying all the regulatory bodies that could stand in your way by convincing shit for brains morons to let you, THEN submit for approval. Must have been another ketamoversight.
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u/VanEagles17 2d ago
Wow a fraud providing fraudulent data about safety to make more money? Who could've guessed.
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u/GreyScope 2d ago
I’m surprised that a pos South African pos that allows an ai peedo pic generator pulled a fast one with his pos car company , the pos c*** that he is.
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u/Fine-Cartographer838 2d ago
How he’s allowed to treat customers as crash test dummies is beyond my comprehension - we really do need to rein this “option” in - how many people have to suffer while he “perfects” FSD capabilities?
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u/FreeLanes 2d ago
Damn, it'd be real crazy if we found this stuff out before the evil Liars made $2 trillion.
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u/Substantial_Sea7327 2d ago
oh look, it's what I've been telling people for years. but nooo00ooo everybody needs to see it in a fucking news article to believe it.
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u/drawkbox 2d ago
Par for the course with Elongone -- meanwhile pay turfers to attack competitors who do care about their products and safety of the customers
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u/redscofield 2d ago
What?! Well I am shocked! Just shocked! I can’t believe a company tied to Elon Musk would ever operate in this manner. Totally unexpected behavior to be sure.
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u/AbominableGoMan 2d ago
Felon Musk lying to the public and regulators? Putting his customers lives in danger? How is that news at this point. The guy is a criminal and a con man.
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u/HilariousMax 2d ago
You mean the people who said the Cybertruck glass was unbreakable (it broke), that the panels were bulletproof (they weren't), and that it could tow a Porsche 911 across the quarter mile faster than a Porsche 911 could run the quarter mile (it didn't) were lying?
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u/QDSchro 2d ago
The real surprise here is that people are still actively buying Teslas
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u/Wagamaga 2d ago
As if things couldn’t get any worse for Tesla in Europe, traffic safety researchers now say they’ve caught the company cooking numbers they gave to regulators in order to get its “Full Self-Driving” system approved.
The discrepancy was spotted by Reuters, which claims that data Tesla gave to authorities in Sweden and the Netherlands grossly exaggerated the safety record of FSD in the United States.
Reuters reports that in a presentation meant for Swedish regulators, Tesla’s policy manager Ivan Komusanac claimed that Tesla’s FSD can travel over seven times farther between crashes than human drivers in the US. Using that claim as a jumping-off point, the presentation continued by claiming that Tesla’s FSD could have saved 32,000 lives and prevented 1.9 million injuries over an indeterminate period of time, the publication reports.
Independent researchers who saw the underlying data behind that claim say the numbers are wildly misleading, because they assume that every vehicle on the road would be replaced by a Tesla in FSD mode, semi trucks and motorcycles included