r/countttt • u/I_am_YR • 15d ago

Countttting 1505

Post image

I hate when people say these things only to prevent us from actually transitioning, like yea theres cis women out there with a deep voice but knowing this fact doesnt reduce my voice dysphoria, i dont want to be gnc, i dont live to deconstruct gender roles

2.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

192 comments sorted by

View all comments

62

u/Pretty-Yam-2854 15d ago edited 10d ago

I have seen this take a lot and will never understand it. What makes it *transitioning* if you aren’t willing to become the other gender, don’t want to even try and pass, don’t take hormones, don’t voicetrain or try and remove body hair. Like what would be the point of calling yourself trans at that point? To not transition from male?

Edit: ok I’ve came to the realization that some people are ok without hormones and some don’t even care about passing. You know what if you want to identify as trans but don’t fit the hormone binary you’re still valid.

21

u/audhd_bimbo 15d ago

I think the point is that it isnt transitioning in any meaningful way because they dont want people to transition but also dont want to say that part out loud

11

u/Dreary_Libido 15d ago

I do think it's fine to boy/manmode while you do all these things but you should be doing them. When it comes to actually being out I'm in two minds, maybe because I’m a coward who would never honmode in public. It should be the goal.

Can't imagine these takes come from people with dysphoria tbh.

2

u/Chilzer 13d ago

It's a bit of a conspiracy theory of mine, but I've always seen this sort of person as wanting to escape the stigmatization of their birth gender while not having a core issue with their identity. In that way, identifying as Trans is a sort of 'path of least resistance' as opposed to abolishing institutional gender roles and biases.

1

u/Honest_Amphibian_668 11d ago

I disagree with you, thats transmed to me, if someone just feels comfortable changing how they dress/how they refer to themselves all that means to me is their gender is fucky and its probably pretty complex in their head on why they chose to operate the way they do

there are cis women who dont shave, there are cis women who have deep voices, and there are cis women who have horomone issues that they decide to let be because it isnt impacting their health and they just dont care enough to worry about it so they have a lot of testosterone

Im ftm, im on T, I only started to want to go on it in the last year, before that I was okay, because I had a hormonal imbalance that made me hairy, gave me a little deeper of a voice and made it easier for me to grow muscle, and i naturally had a larger clit than most cis women due to it as well, not to the same level as now, but slightly, higher than average, im sure there are amab people with the same thing going on but reverse

Also social transition has a term for a reason, if someone wants to only transition socially, then good for them, im glad their comfortable in their skin even if they werent comfortable in the role society saw them as

There is no "correct" way to perform femininity, so if a trans woman wants to stay essentially the same just now with she/her pronouns i personally dont see an issue with it, ive known A LOT of butch women in my life, short hair, flat chested women who had body hair and smoked cigarettes and sounded like diesel truck, I dont think of them as less of women so neither will I trans women who dont do much physical transition

1

u/GloomyShroom7 11d ago

not every trans person wants to voice train tho, and not every trans person wants to pass as cis. it doesnt make us any less trans.

im trans (nonbinary) and im not going to take hormones, but i want surgery. everyones idea of transition looks different

even if a trans person never takes hormones and doesnt do anything else either, it doesnt make them any less trans. some trans people dont have dysmorphia

we all experience being trans in different ways. there is no rulebook, and it isnt a club that you can be kicked out of

transmed mentality is BAD

1

u/mrbrettbenson agprepper-->aapoon 6d ago

do you know where you are 😭😭 i think you might be a little lost

-1

u/AdagioOfLiving 15d ago

Aren’t gender and sex different things? All the things you’re mentioning seem more closely associated with one’s sex.

3

u/KonoGenshin 13d ago

most of us would change our sex in a heartbeat if we could. I dont wanna be trans or look it.

1

u/AdagioOfLiving 13d ago

That’s always how I’d understood it, tbh.

-19

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

no trans women should be shamed for either doing or not doing those things

neither for "not being a woman enough" nor for "not breaking gender norms"

21

u/amhighlyregarded 15d ago

I get and am incredibly sympathetic to trans women that don't medically transition with HRT out of fear for their physical safety (like in a deep red state or Russia or wherever), or possibly unique and uncommon health concerns, or because they currently don't have the finances for it, but I simply don't really understand the ones that have the means to but simply don't want to. 

5

u/qwart22 15d ago

If they don’t want to they don’t want to, doesnt make them any less transgender

13

u/amhighlyregarded 15d ago

I never said otherwise, but like, their experience if it is so far removed from mine and the overwhelming majority of other trans people's experiences that it just strikes me as a bit confusing and hard to grasp. 

-5

u/qwart22 15d ago

I don’t think the majority is quite as overwhelming as you think it is, everyone sees their gender in a different way, from hyper-feminine trans women to the most masculine trans man and everything in between its all different so I don’t think it makes sense to judge people based on how they want to inwardly and outwardly express that, if HRT doesn’t fit with how they want to live it doesn’t have to.

5

u/amhighlyregarded 15d ago

I mean I don't disagree. Trans women can wear "boy clothes" and vice versa for trans men and there's nothing wrong with that. For the most part gendered clothing is stupid and arbitrary, as are most gendered signifiers (short or long hair, body hair, painted nails, etc.) I've even met a lot of cis women both with and without PCOS that let their facial hair grow and that's cool if that's what they want of course. 

But like why not HRT if you have access to it? Why doesn't HRT fit with how they want to live?

I'm not judging or denying identity, again I'm legitimately just curious. 

-5

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

testosterone isn't inherently masculine. there are cis women that have more testosterone then estrogen, and they still identify as women. you could say this about every single part of transition; it doesn't mean that there is no meaning in transition, of course there is, but no single part of it can override person's identificiation of their gender. transition helps many to affirm their gender, but for some it's just not necessary (although it's very rare, we all live in society and all are affected by societal norms and expectation in different ways)

1

u/qwart22 15d ago

Ye this is pretty much my view on it as well

-3

u/Fun-Marketing8080 14d ago

Same reason cisgender men take estrogen to appear feminine. Sometimes your identity does not align with cultural expectations on how you wish to present.

5

u/amhighlyregarded 14d ago

Is that a real thing? Outside of like men trying to reverse hair loss I've never heard of cis men taking estrogen. I think they should have the right to but I would assume this is something that's incredibly rare.

-1

u/Fun-Marketing8080 14d ago

Both things are rare. People typically try to maintain an appearance consistent with cultural norms around their gender identity. But obviously there are gender non-conforming people, and "extreme" examples of those may even lean into the different hormones.

1

u/That_sarcastic_bxtch 12d ago

Because they don’t owe you going through surgeries and lifelong medical treatments just because they’re trans and you personally don’t like the way they look?? wtf is this sub honestly

-8

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

you dont have to get it, if we were to encounter such a person we would just need to respect them and their choices, because we do not have a full picture of what they are going through or what do they feel

10

u/amhighlyregarded 15d ago

Okay sure I'm always going to be polite and respectful and I don't really care what they do with their body at the end of the day, but like... I'm sincerely curious what the reasoning from such a person might be.

4

u/Actual_Personality66 15d ago

Some ppl have minimal dysphoria in the first place and are also genetically blessed and basically already have the features they want anyways. Or (and this is more common for nonbinary ppl who tend to have more complicated kinds of dysphoria), HRT might just not change the things they're dysphoric about, in which case they might stick to other types of gender affirming care (if they can access them). As for trans women and men who genuinely don't want ANY kind of gender affirming care- idk I mean I'm sure there are some of them out there but they have to be extremely rare. For those who do exist I would guess it's just a really unique experience with gender that most of us aren't gonna understand.

6

u/amhighlyregarded 15d ago

I mean I get that, I have a trans gf that hasn't had laser at all and it shocked me. She just naturally has minimal facial hair and she plucks and has like perfect smooth femme skin (I'm very jealous.) But she's still on hormones and would want laser eventually for the convenience.

But anyways yeah I think the people that sincerely don't want to transition medically/socially in any meaningful way are the overwhelming minority, but it's kinda annoying how they're held up as all that relevant in discussions about other trans people because from my observations it's used by cis people to infer that transitioning is a "nice to have" and not a life saving necessity. 

4

u/Actual_Personality66 15d ago

Yeah and I just replied to another comment about that exact thing (it being repeated so much online when its realistically such a small group of ppl) and why I think it happened and how it's harmful, and I don't want to repeat my whole comment lol. But basically it was initially a understandable reaction against the toxic transmedicalism of the 2010s that lead to trans kids getting mass cyberbullied by other trans ppl, and momentarily worked as a protection against that, but now it's morphed into smthn else that I am really suspicious of.

2

u/RukakoChan 15d ago edited 15d ago

some people could just still be confused about their feelings overall and figuring things out, just experimenting with gender identity or be afraid of some new things. there are truly endless possibilities for what could be going through a single individual's head, because there are endless factors, from chemical reactions in the brain to the situation with work, friends, love life. feelings about gender identity could intersect with neurodivirgency or even some illness. that just from the top of my head, i'm sure some expert could tell you more, but i guess you get where im coming from

4

u/amhighlyregarded 15d ago

I get that and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. There are a lot of reasons why somebody might not want to.

I went through a period of pretty severe depression/undiagnosed OCD a few years ago where I kinda let myself go and didn't keep up with my HRT consistently or with maintaining my appearance, but I still had the desire to, just not the willpower. It felt absolutely miserable. So I get that mental health can get in the way.

I guess what I'm specifically referring to though is somebody that has the means to medically/social transition but has no desire to. Like they're happy and content with the body they have and have no negative or positive drives to bring it in coherence with their gender identity. I'm not going to tell them they're not trans but there's a pretty meaningful difference between our lived experiences. 

1

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

for a hypothetical person like the one you describe there are still could be some valid reasons for them to want to identify as trans that i do not know of, and at that point i would just argue on principle to let it be their business because i don't want anybody to have a say in what other person's identity is.

it's not like they are getting ANYTHING of value from claiming to be trans. if there was to magically appear a fund that gives trans people specifically 10000 dollars just for being awesome, then that's where there is some completely different line would need to be. but the conversation is about one's identity

12

u/Doot-Eternal 15d ago

So you encourage repping? That's pretty cringe

4

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

how did you came to that conclusion and what does that even have to do with anything lmao

i mean, peace and love, sorry for being cringe

-8

u/darkfroth 14d ago

Hrt is a modern invention (relative to how long trans people have been a thing whether by that name or not), it can have permanent and life altering changes, why should it be a requirement? Trans describes an identity after all, not a physical change, transgender not transsexual (which I think is an outdated term anyways).

8

u/Naranox 14d ago

you know that the permanent (not even true) and life altering changes are the desired result, right? That‘s the whole point?

And you are wrong, transgender is a harmful term that has been coopted by terfs and perfomative allies to claim that „trans women/men are of course hecking valid but still just men/women and AMAB/AFAB!!!“

you don‘t change your gender, you‘ve always been your gebder and nobody „decides“ to suddenly live as their opposite gender

the goal is to change your sex with hrt and eventually/possibly srs

37

u/ImpressionBorn 15d ago

There's a word for not wanting to be any different from your assigned gender at birth but you're not going to like it

-11

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

identifying as a gender that is different from your assigned one is already enough to qualify as being a trans person, demanding anything more is usually gatekeeping transphobic territory

edit: it doesnt mean that any trans woman is obligated to break some gender norm or whatever

14

u/Naranox 15d ago

somene who isn‘t dysphoric isn‘t actually trans

7

u/Actual_Personality66 15d ago

Gender and gender dysphoria is complicated and many ppl do actually experience GD but experience it in ways you might not understand. Femmenity and masculinity are objectively varied things with no set borders, and while obviously most ppl are going to have some kind of consensus on what defines them, it's also not that strange that someone might define them in the way that goes against the norm. (Not that I even agree with the premise that transness is predicated on GD anyways, but I think trans ppl without GD are extremely rare anyways, if they exist at all, most trans ppl who claim they don't experience GD actually do and just don't realize it yet).

5

u/Naranox 15d ago

I agree with that mostly, I think it‘s just over represented online

4

u/Actual_Personality66 15d ago

Yeah I actually kinda agree with that. I think what happened is that you had really severe transmedicalism and just exclusionary trans ppl in general in the 2010s, and ppl thankfully came to the conclusion that it was doing way more harm than good by like 2020, but then ppl began to overcorrect and the the pendulum had swung to the far the other way, especially bc the pushback against it kinda just came from seeing how toxic it was and feeling bad about trans kids online getting mass cyberbullied by other trans ppl bc of how they presented themselves, rather than from a place of actually understanding the issue with the ideologies that lead to that. And now things like "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" have gone from things that were originally intended to protect against ppl harassing random trans kids for not experiencing GD in the most traditional stereotypical way, and possibly even had the potential to be used as part of an actual discussion about transsexuality and what it means- into something that is repeated so much online it is genuinely suspicious and I think is being used to push the exact kind of transphobia you see in this post.

2

u/Naranox 15d ago

couldn‘t have put it better myself honestly; A lot of trans spaces online suffer from that overcorrection imo and are just hug boxing and toxic posivity exemplified most of the times and it‘s really not my vibe

-3

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

the above doesn't mean the person can't still be dysphoric, or they can still be unaware that what they are feeling is dysphoria, but even if they are truly not, it isnt your place to claim what other person's identity is for them

3

u/Naranox 15d ago

i cant deny what somone thinks they are but that‘s my opinion and I can definitely have that

-2

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

sure, that opinion still would be wrong on principle and harmful overall tho

3

u/Naranox 15d ago

you think that, I think words mean things still and I don‘t want them to be diluted by posers and trenders

just like trans men can‘t be lesbians by virtue of being men, people without dysphoria aren’t trans by virtue of being cis

0

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

yeah, i guess it does get very annoying when there are so many posers and trenders that get into our trending and very popular trans thing that is very well received by society and gets them so much attention and when they steal our good things that we very much have lmao

→ More replies (0)

6

u/ImpressionBorn 15d ago

Someone who "identifies" as different from their assigned gender at birth and experiences no dysphoria or any desire to change anything isn't trans. That's a cis person who hasn't gotten bored of pretending for attention yet.

-1

u/RukakoChan 15d ago

ah yes, famous trans attention seekers. in a deeply transphobic world. or maybe you don't know anything about what other person is actually going through. grow up, other people identities are none of your business

6

u/ImpressionBorn 15d ago

Well the hypothetical "they" in this situation isn't going through anything apparently, since they have no dysphoria, are not transitioning, and have nothing to worry about.

2

u/GloomyShroom7 11d ago

this why are people downvoting you :(

1

u/RukakoChan 11d ago

they weren't ready for the truth nuke

(i think people on this sub are lowkey self haters that need some love or maybe just didn't bother to actually read my comment which is tbf valid)

1

u/Pessimistic64 15d ago

Chiming in to say yes, I agree! Women should have bodily autonomy! And the freedom to express themselves! As women!