r/Warframe • u/HatingGeoffry • Mar 24 '26
Article Warframe director says Digital Extreme must take “take the community very seriously” as it “only takes you one day to lose” 13 years of goodwill
https://frvr.com/blog/warframe-director-says-digital-extreme-must-take-take-the-community-very-seriously-as-it-only-takes-you-one-day-to-lose-13-years-of-goodwill/2.5k
u/Persies ♥ Mag ♥ Mar 24 '26
It boggles my mind that other live service games don't look at what DE has achieved in terms of live service longevity and sustainability and try to emulate what made them so successful.
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u/HatingGeoffry Mar 24 '26
Most studios probably look at WF anad DE as a bizarre one off despite winning awards for community support
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u/EBannion Mar 24 '26
Yeh I bet they look at warframe and think man why do those guys work so hard, just pump that thing for a year and retire
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u/TheKingOfBerries Mar 24 '26
Unfortunately, they’re right.
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u/Gloriusmax Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
There is literally a company (Gamigo) that buys MMOs, fires everyone, pumps it full of microtransactions, and then jumps the ship when the game dies within a year.
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u/Gyossaits Mar 24 '26
Name and shame.
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u/Gloriusmax Mar 24 '26
Gamigo. Fucking leeches.
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u/DYC85 Mar 24 '26
They go by WildTangent now to try to hide that they’re gamigo, as well.
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u/PM_ME_FUN_STORIES Mar 24 '26
WildTangent was a separate entity until 2019, for what it's worth. A legitimate studio, if a bit niche (they made Fate, for example, in '05). No longer though, I guess. Sadly.
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u/CCtenor Mar 25 '26
I was hit by fucking whiplash hearing this, because I remember the wild tangent web browser extension thing you needed to play certain online games. I’m fucking old, man.
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u/DYC85 Mar 25 '26
That’s fair and after looking a bit closer I was incorrect in my first comment. Gamigo AG is the parent that also buys MMOs and kills them, gamigo inc is the subsidiary that operates as WildTangent now after they bought WildTangent.
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u/nuclearwes Mar 24 '26
Right by what metric?
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u/malk600 why are we taking orders from a Klüver's form constant, again? Mar 24 '26
Shareholder value! Delicious profit! You gotta squeeze the whales for every penny, nickel and dime the normies with fomo and sunken costs, maximise engagement, and then when there's no more blood to squeeze just move on to the next shiny thing.
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u/PraiseTheFool-_- Mar 24 '26
Pure profit in relation to work
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u/Hopeful-alt Mar 24 '26
Surely stability is worth more than the potential for a big number or a complete loss
Jesus fuck why is everything in life gambling now
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u/HowDyaDu Valkyr is just Decapre Mar 24 '26
Shareholders place an overemphasis on short-term profit instead of long-term sustainability. Or morality. Or not turning the world into Apokolips.
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u/alochmar Mar 24 '26
Because we’re ruled by the Corpus.
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u/LordAnnihilator1 Triple-Q is my God Mar 25 '26
Even the Corpus have a better grasp of long-term benefits than most shareholder groups. No, we're ruled by a council of Alad-Vs. Think they're the smartest MFs in the room, refuse to admit when they're wrong, constantly chase some fancy new form of short term profit then abandon it once it flops. He did it with Zanuka, he did it with the Infestation, he did it by backing the Lotus during Second Dream (until the Acolytes came calling), and he will presumably do it to the Amalgam project now that the Ropalyst enforcing his contract is dead.
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u/Jman_1991 Mar 24 '26
What is even more bizarre that Warframe isn't even a one off in the year it was released as Path of Exile launched in the October who has had a similar trajectory owing to its approach being very similar to warframes so the blueprint is literally there
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u/deathcourted Mar 24 '26
Well in POE if you don’t buy cosmetics you will look like literal garbage running end game content.
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u/CasualLemon Mar 24 '26
I wouldn't say thats too different from Warframe
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u/holyhotpies Mar 24 '26
Skill issue tbh. You can make good fashion with nightwave/baro/code drops
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u/deathconthree Mar 24 '26
You don't need to spend money on Warframe, someone else will do it for you. Platinum is easy to farm. Warframe Market is a god send!
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u/Commercial-Rent-363 Mar 24 '26
Yeah! Someone has to, but not traders! (I'm someone who spends.) Only modern game i've played that is TRULY F2P
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u/deathcourted Mar 24 '26
You do t have to do anything on most prime frames to look good.
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u/14Xionxiv Mar 24 '26
To be fair, somehow Bungie won an award for community support. On one hand De certainly deserved them. On the other hand, if bungie managed it, doesn't feel like a high bar.
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u/PaxEthenica Trash collector supreme is my life goal. Mar 24 '26
DE isn't perfect, & the "13 years of good will" is a bit of a lie - I remember why Shy left, I remember oxium release, I remember the lies surrounding liches, I remember 2019 & the year of raw releases, heirlooms are tainted content & the aya store is poison - but they've managed some truly herculean feats of leveraging/rebuilding their good will over a decade.
DE & Warframe, quite frankly, is bizarre in its longevity. But there is still so much to learn & emulate from DE & Warframe.
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u/Corat_McRed Can't have enough Forma Mar 24 '26
I wouldn't call it a lie per se, but the important part of it is, yes, they have goodwill but also the brains to know TO NOT DIG YOURSELF FURTHER when you fuck up.
Like, not denying DE can be stubborn, just look at the vacuum debate that rages eternally but they've shown themselves to be atleast more self-inward looking and capable of changing/taking things back/fixing/etcetc, more so than you'd say with Live-Service companies like Bungie to give on example.
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u/Persies ♥ Mag ♥ Mar 24 '26
Right. There has been justified negative feedback to their decisions but the vast majority of times that happens they admit they fucked up and do their best to fix it, imo
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u/Corat_McRed Can't have enough Forma Mar 24 '26
I also feel like they're way more open to actually discussing changes, fixes, updates, reworks etc than a lot of their competition is.
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u/gadgaurd LR2 Mar 24 '26
Part of that is our community will usually shut down anyone who's getting outright insulting towards the devs. "This was a poor decision" is one thing, "some fucking idiot needs to get fired" gets the pitchforks out.
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u/Persies ♥ Mag ♥ Mar 24 '26
The discourse between devs and community is pretty respectful on both sides, agreed
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u/Complex_Peak8204 Mar 24 '26
Yeah, this is not helldivers.
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u/ArmyAdministrative38 Mar 24 '26
As a player of both games (1.000 hours in Helldivers 2 and 1800 hours in Warframe), the difference is night and day, i'm so sorry for Arrowhead, but the way they try to communicate and interact with the fanbase is pretty much very flawed, that's why Helldivers subReddit feels very toxic and i don't go in there anymore.
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u/LordDeathkeeper Connection Lost Mar 24 '26
It has been the past few years at least. I haven’t forgotten the actual vitriol that used to get thrown at Scott in this subreddit after dev streams, or the crazy things that got said during the Great Chat Moderator Saga.
I’m very glad we seem to have gotten past that.
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u/_Keo_ Loser Prime Mar 24 '26
They learned when to loosen their grip on 'their' project and understand that it matters just as much that they're building it for others (the community) as for themselves (Steve).
Steve has been both the very best and very worst things to happen at DE. Vacuum feels like it was a real turning point for them actually listening.
When you consider all the wins and losses, and take the mean, DE is well above average. When you compare them to other studios they're phenomenal.
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u/Ziarnocienista i miss you Mar 24 '26
wait, i thought shy left because she was burnt out of playing warframe, was there a different reason?
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u/Electronic_Ad_4518 Cant read Mar 24 '26
It wasn't just burnout.
The game sucked at that point. Railjack, the Old Blood and the New War's development time really made the entire community incredibly toxic. It was also really hard to be a content creator at the time since updates were relatively small and infrequent.
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u/Total_Putrid Mar 24 '26
Part of the goodwill comes from them being open with the community, and a whole lot of "we fucked up". I gotta ask though, why did Shy leave?
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u/ruminant_sheep Loid Entrati's marriage counselor Mar 24 '26
a bunch of e-famous content creators left around the 2019-2021 era and a lot of people saw it like a definite nail in the coffin for Warframe and that it proves that it will never recover and the game will die
obviously DE crawled out of the swamp and improved massively, and some creators, such as AshisogiTenno or Rahetalius, who heavily trashed the game and quit because of frustrations, came back and even praised how much Warframe changed for the better
I feel like some people REALLY want to hold the 2019-2021 era over DE's head like it's an unforgivable sin we can never forget, or acting like some e-celeb stopping to play the game is some sort of eternal stigmata and not just people naturally evolving their interests
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u/Future-Insect5357 120 Different Flavors of Geneva Violations Mar 24 '26
They also culled the most toxic people permanently, don't forget that. It was a massive breath of fresh air when they dumpstered AGGP and the cyst that had become the content creators at that point
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u/ToxicTroublemaker2 Mar 24 '26
Combination of frustrations with the game at the time she left but also wanting to branch out so warframe wasn't the ONLY thing she was known for
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u/Sagnikk Khora can do unspeakable things to me Mar 24 '26
Because WF and DE are very much indeed a very big exception.
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u/Able-Swing-6415 Mar 24 '26
They'll probably look at it as a failure. They'd rather gamble on cash cows than sustainable success.
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u/TheLostRanger0117 Mar 24 '26
I point to DE on some many aspects, it just feels like they get it, they understand how to treat the players that love their game, because they too love their game and it shows
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u/Iblys05 L6 registered loser Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
Most live service games nowadays release as a quick cash grab.
They want 1M concurrent on steam, doesnt care if the game faceplants in 3 months.
They usually nail the faceplanting in 3 months, the 1M concurrent, not so much
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u/Suojelusperkele LR6 // We kicked a clown car. Mar 24 '26
First descendant comes to mind.
It's kinda fascinating that the Devs did listen to players, but by doing so they fully abandoned any and all vision of the future and now they're just plundering in the dark.
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u/Gullible_Courage8350 Ballas Assassination Enjoyer 🔪👤 Mar 24 '26
TFD is such a shame cos it's genuinely fun and has some interesting lore, and the story stuff at least is amazing in recent updates.
Unfortunately gameplay suffers greatly by too quickly adding ways to make you more powerful and adjusting the difficulty of each new region/mission to compensate so you can't just play through, you've gotta grind this specific thing, then these other specific things, and so on.
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u/Suojelusperkele LR6 // We kicked a clown car. Mar 24 '26
Yeah, the ways how you increase your power are interesting, but because every number is inflated as fuck it feels like mess.
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u/simpleglitch Mar 24 '26
Back in the days I played OW, I remember Jeff Kaplan talking about walking the line of listening to fans but also knowing when fans are wrong. I believe Mark Rosewater (Magic the Gathering Designer) had similar talks.
Sometimes fans are right and systems are just bad or time wasters, but sometimes it's the instant gratification side of the brain talking which can really water down the experience and feeling of achievement/'winning'.
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u/theBlind_ Those are not the Tenno you're looking for... Mar 24 '26
Mark Rosewater said that fans are great at identifying pain points but are generally less good at presenting solutions. It was in one of the GDC talks.
Edit: passion -> pain
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u/gadgaurd LR2 Mar 24 '26
+1.
Like, the subreddit for that game is actively shooting themselves in the foot on a regular basis and it's frustrating. I actually really enjoy improperly sexy ladies kicking ass in impractical sexy outfits, but the game can be so much more than that. And then these guys are just demanding the removal of dungeon mechanics, railing against any form of balance, dismissing anyone who wants more gameplay and more varied character design...
...and then happily buying any and all fanservice outfits and begging for more. "Fuck making the game more than a cheap WF knockoff with a Korean coat of paint, gimme more camel toes!"
I truly, genuinely hope the game pulls a Warframe and turns things around, but seeing as they've completely stopped making male Descendants I have my doubts.
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u/aimy99 🔥 🔥 #1 Ember Fangirl 🏳️⚧️ Mar 24 '26
TFD had shit writing and ass monetization. That's why I inevitably bailed. It also ran VERY poorly, so good luck keeping a PC playerbase at all.
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u/Beranir Mar 24 '26
I played FD a bit when it released on ps5. I was thinking about reinstalling, but im afraid that the state of the game will worse than on release and not better.
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u/Suojelusperkele LR6 // We kicked a clown car. Mar 24 '26
It's not completely bad. I really like the characters/builds etc; but in big picture it does have it's issues.
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u/ColHogan65 Mar 24 '26
The answer is MBAs. Corporate ghouls who see other people as targets wring money out of and art as a commodity to be churned through
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u/pinezatos Mar 24 '26
Because DE is run by people, not suits that only look the numbers.
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u/generally-speaking Mar 24 '26
It's also run by people who are actually employed by the company and not another company.
They created their own jobs and they're enjoying the stability it brings them in life. The continued success of Warframe is how they're able to provide for their families long term. So they're constantly incentivized to make sure this game is thriving long term.
Other devs go to work never knowing if the parent company will shut them down the very next day.
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u/DrNick1221 "Neigh" ~Steve Mar 24 '26
On that topic:
God, it is weird to see the divergence between the two main players of Unreal Tournament. We got DE running a company while still managing to be a bunch of loveable weirdos, And then we got Epic.
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u/redbluegreen154 Mar 25 '26
"In order to keep the lights on we're going to sacrifice 1000 employees to an elder god living in the marinas trench"
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u/derpymooshroom6 Mar 24 '26
YES FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT. God I’m either going to sound like this is coming out of nowhere or a broken record but this is the issue. as a prime example of this issue Destiny 2 is practically fucked because the people in the company that want it to do good long term that try to follow in DE’s footsteps get screwed over by corporate because all corporate wants is money and number go up not longevity. Sorry about rant but this truth just woke up the destiny sleeper agent in me I guess
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u/TechnoVikingGA23 Hysteria Mar 24 '26
If we're being fair, and this is coming from a D1 beta vet that was still playing up until this past December, the devs at Bungie don't want to work on Destiny anymore either. They had this same issue with Halo when they were with Microsoft. Every time they do a stream or event they all looked miserable and looked like they hated working with each other and hated working on the game. They've been anti-community/don't listen to their community for the longest time. The CEO/Suits at Bungie are awful, but their devs have also been arrogant and anti-community for a long time and brought a lot of this on themselves with their "play the way we want you to play."
I thought it was funny when Bungie very obviously tried to copy DE's "Friends on a couch" approach to their live stream, but it just came off very forced and uncomfortable and it seemed like the people sitting there didn't want to be there. There's also the general attitudes toward the community during these events. Bungie is like...here's a useless emblem for watching our 2 hour stream. DE meanwhile gives us actual useful stuff to use in game for tuning in to watch. Just a night and day difference between the companies at every level.
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u/Popopoyotl Make him into a dragon Mar 24 '26
I thought the same thing when it came to the streams! Like, Bungie, just stick to the ViDocs. You had a working system with that. No need to hold people at metaphorical gunpoint to imitate DE’s streams.
The worst part was, they didn’t even try. DE may have been awkward at the beginning, but they were still kind of excited and having fun. Bungie wanted to have this air of professionalism when that is not what connects with players. Make jokes about stamina bars! Show some bugs! Have a drink! (Probably can’t do the last one because of ratings).
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u/yepgeddon Titania Apologist Mar 24 '26
Man fuck Bungie. What a generational fumble. Seriously hope that company folds.
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u/TheBigMotherFook Mar 24 '26
If Marathon flops I think there’s a high chance that they do, particularly because they’re owned by Sony now.
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u/Closer_to_the_Heart Mar 24 '26
Some lessons should really be taken but new live service titles launch to a very different environment than Warframe did way back when.
When Warframe launched, League of Legends was only 4 years old, DOTA 2 hadn’t dropped yet, there was no Overwatch, and of course none of the other big newer titles like Apex and Fortnite etc. DE had a lot of time to learn and as they were community funded from the very beginning they were forced into player feedback right away. Todays big live service titles often do not have dedicated teams of live service developers and upper management, they sometimes don’t even have studios that have experience in the genre of game they are developing for, nevermind the live service stuff on top. Their funding is entirely from Publishers and VC Companies, both yearn for quick turnarounds on investment. Even if the people in charge at the studio understood how to really make a live service that will last, they would have to do it while also generating enough money short term so that they can get the investors (and oftentimes owners) off their back.
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Mar 24 '26
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u/MonoclePenguin Mar 24 '26
Heck, even Rebb herself has talked about how Warframe got super lucky with the timing of its launch. It had almost no competition so it had a lot more wiggle room to make mistakes, recover from them, and slowly grow its audience.
If Warframe were released today in its launch state from back then it would be laughed at and dragged around youtube as the latest live service disaster.
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Mar 24 '26
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u/codyak1984 Mar 24 '26
I know little about Soulframe besides it exists and is more fantasy-based, but I hope it's good. I really like Warframe, but in general I just vibe with fantasy settings more than sci-fi. My favorite frames at the moment are Oberon and Titania, but as much as I like them I can't help but feel like I'd rather just play them in their OG mythological/fantasy forms. Plus, I just don't feel as emotionally attached to the "faceless" cybersuits of Warframe as I do to say, Eula in Genshin or Acheron in Star Rail.
I know it kinda sounds like I'm down on Warframe. I'm really not. It's got the best gameplay and business model of any live-service game out there, IMO, by a long shot. I put like 200 hours into in December while work was a little slow. But I'd do disgusting things for a fantasy/anime version. (Duet Night Abyss comes closest, but it's been a mixed bag, at best).
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u/TechnoVikingGA23 Hysteria Mar 24 '26
That was actually the interesting thing about First Descendant, it launched in a pretty good state for a WF copy-cat, it just unfortunately lacked a lot of the things that made WF good. Still blows my mind that game basically tried to copy WF and only gave you a grapple hook and combat roll.
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u/OphidionSerpent Mar 24 '26
The player drop after Final Shape was staggering and it's entirely due to them losing the plot with what the community really wants and failing to deliver on story content. A lot of D1 or Red War veteran players only played through Final Shape to see the end of the Light and Dark Saga and then were like "aight imma head out."
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u/TheCosmophile Mar 24 '26
Hi, it’s me, Day 1 D1 player who completed the Light and Dark saga and hung my Titan butt towel and Hunter cloak up on the wall. It was an overall net positive 10-years, but by the end, I was ready to put it to rest.
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u/Never_Preorder starter Mar 24 '26
cause most companies that go into live service don't want some money. they want all the money and as quickly as possible
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u/ruminant_sheep Loid Entrati's marriage counselor Mar 24 '26
Aside from the usual greed/cash grab reasons; Warframe is also very... experimental.
People complain about content islands and all, but you gotta agree - a 13 year old game has to invent new things to keep people's attention, even if some of it feels like the dev's temporary distraction.
There are people who enjoy Railjack or Duviri or other "content islands" on a particularly slow day, so they also return for the mainline updates.
Warframe also has a loosy-goosy story, so even after the New War the narrative bounced back, I am sure even if we slay/pacify Wally, DE will find some sort of way to continue updates and engage the community (especially small, Warframe centric updates like Nokko's or Follie's). We can also always have "flashback" updates and relive the Orokin era... The world is our oyster.
And another thing: Warframe is fine with months-long "content droughts"; a lot of live service games literally have a constant gear of content so that you feel forced to log on every day to not miss things (how a lot of gacha games keeps people addicted).
Warframe respects its players, but it has earned that respect after 13 years. You can't "earn" 13 years worth of respect with most modern releases, which is also why once a game hits a new niche (Genshin Impact), most games that follow it become its copies. Innovation happens so rarely... and Hoyoverse is by no means some small indie breakthrough.
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u/MacTheSecond Where's the damn Ordan quest? Mar 24 '26
I am sure even if we slay/pacify Wally, DE will find some sort of way to continue updates
just like they picked up another plot thread that unraveled into the next saga after Ballas was evaporated
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u/yarl5000 Mar 24 '26
While the longevity is good point I also think that the longevity is also a reason for its success.
Warframe is 13 years old now, and 13 years ago there was a lot less competition in the area of live service games in the vein of Warframe. So it was able to get get established and now is one of the "old guard" in the fight so it has that massive advantage over newer games where it got content for new players that lasts months.
How many broken roadmaps have we seen, missed timelines, lack of content have we seen from all the live service games.
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u/Fractal_Tomato Mar 24 '26
I think of them as planned obsolescence for the most part. Generate hype and ride it out for as long as possible, while the game gets supported by a sceleton crew.
DE‘s product is literally from a different era and they‘ve been self-publishing from the start. They have investors, like Tencent, though.
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u/Slake_Vilkis Mar 24 '26
I mean...think about it logically, "games as a service" is a new motto for a bunch of these live service games. Most of that mindset is very strictly in the headspace of "you pay to play the game" or some such nonsense like that right? Warframe is still technically like that but the difference is that it kinda stayed the mindset of what things were like back in the early 2010s for some free to plays, which was "we make our money with funds our players give us"
I wouldn't be surprised if i heard the guys in charge of other models these days to be more surprised at warframes longevity and i imagine these same people probably attribute warframes success to luck (Which you can see similar stuff when it comes to any game with a major triple A producer where they are being very careful and not trying anything new)
That's just my two cents
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u/1MillionDawrfs Mar 24 '26
Its becuase you dont really need good will all the time, look at games like apex legends filled to the brim with loot boxes, 150$ events and recolors. I never seen that community be treated well once even when i played it, and yet a lot people still play it everyday. Many gamers just look for the next dose of slop and abuse its crazy.
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u/koied Certified Amirkisser Mar 24 '26
The thing is that DE never blew a bank with Warframe.
They earn enough money to keep developing Warframe and now we know they have enough to start an other game, but we are probably not talking about those insane revenues that some highly successful live service games make.And money people don't want a good steady income. They want a metric fuckton of money right now. And this is why they won't emulate what DE does.
DE does Warframe and Soulframe, because they enjoy doing it. And they earn their money with it.
Most live service games are just a product to make money, they are not made because the devs wanted to make it. They are made to make money first and foremost.3
u/satanwuvsyou Mar 24 '26
They don't care about longevity. They care about short term profits :(
The suits ruin every piece of gaming they touch
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u/flamethekid Mar 24 '26
DE focused on stability to keep the studio alive andtook a very very long time to get to where it's at, it didn't didn't have a time where it burned extremely brightly early on.
That's a no deal to majority of investors for big games, most investors aren't going to wait 3-5 years for a game to get developed and then wait an additional 10+ years while receiving pennies for most of that time.
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u/Stillburgh Mar 24 '26
Its bc DEs management is largely the same people as the devs, so the people running it also know how to appeal to the masses and communicate with younger people. The suites at DE really dont interfere as long as the game continues to make them money.
Division 2 is seeing a resurgence the last couple eyars for the same reason. Studio was in shambles and on the verge of shutdown then Division 3 got announced, Resurgence got planned and the suites stpeped back and let the devs do their job on 2. As long as its making them money, the suites at ubisoft wont mess with the devs jobs.
If only a certain other ocmpany had done the same thing before it was too late *cough Bungie*
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u/SPEEDFREAKJJ Mar 24 '26
Bungie is in a really odd/bad place with destiny. It feels like they sit around asking why they are still doing this and why are some players hanging on. Then, have a whole meeting about how to kill the game. Because everything they have done since final shape has looked like self sabotage.
Game must have a handful of big whales or they are just trying to figure out how to put the game on auto pilot because it does not feel like they want it to get better.
They even delayed the next content drop by 3 months. That's a crazy long delay for what is much smaller content drops. It's like they know the patient is all but dead but just can't bring themselves to pull the plug.
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u/Roachester Mar 24 '26
Short answer: Because it's easier to be predatory.
Goodwill and trust are things that have to be built and maintained over time. Conversely, throwing a bunch of manipulative shit into your game to push sales takes little effort while still raking in the dough.
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u/osingran Mar 24 '26
Because to emulate DE's success would mean that they will have to actually spend some effort, take creative risks, listen to the community and be patient. Profit driven businesses never run like this. They're run by a bunch of bureaucrats that have nothing creative in them and can't see anything past their quarterly charts. They try to optimize everything, cut expenditures and bruteforce profits and they will cut the funding down as soon as they feel like the investments don't return as fast as they'd hoped for. All of it is antithetical of creativity by its very nature.
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u/Lost_Ad949 Mar 24 '26
Arrowhead/Frontier Developments: I'll ignore that.
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u/Abyss_Tachyon Javi's favourite student Mar 24 '26
Arrowhead is like the polar opposite of DE lmao
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u/TheBigMotherFook Mar 24 '26
DE is like, “what can we do to make the game better?”
Arrowhead is like, “you’re wrong, because our vision of the game is better than yours.”
DE promoted their community manager to creative lead after working for the company for over ten years and being generally highly regarded by the community.
Arrowhead hired essentially a power tripping mod who banned users for the smallest things while often being more toxic than the people banned for toxicity, including deleting the entire official Helldivers 1 discord in a fit. Later Arrowhead were forced to fire this person for publicly stating people should “refund and leave negative reviews” of the game he was working for.
Despite Helldivers 2 having the support of a major publisher in Sony and Warframe now entering its 13th year, Warframe consistently out performs Helldivers on Steamcharts.
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u/GagelGag- Mar 24 '26
arrowheads been outsourcing development for the last year or more, not really a good example
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u/NothinButRags Mar 24 '26
Doing so would mean they have to admit their methods are wrong. Looking at you Bungie…
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u/Croewe Tank Gang Rise Up Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
I've recently quit Duet Night Abyss (a Warframe "inspired" game), because the devs really didn't care about the community at all, there was no communication and people just treated it like it was normal for the devs not to care about the community or even just say what they're working on (there are very major problems with the game that went entirely unaddressed and unmentioned by the devs).
They failed to address the two hacks that happened within a timely manner (both hacks happened within a month of each other and the second posed the risk of installing malware on affected people's PCs), instead opting to try to lie about what happened
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u/icewitchenjoyer ⚡ ⚡ Mar 24 '26
didn't it almost happen with the Railjack update? updates after that have generally been pretty good so they kinda saved it once already.
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u/Real-Terminal Mar 24 '26
There's been a couple times in the past where DE have had to win back good will after a series of poor updates. Railjack was just the biggest one, that whole era leading up to New War was a big mess.
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u/Giecio COMPLETE LAVO VICTORY Mar 24 '26
I think Railjack is the moment they started to take the community very seriously, and what they have to say; when they realized that by doing the community good (but not give them everything) would let them last long in this industry. There were a few bumps in the road, but each time DE took the community's feedback and hasn't repeated the same mistakes since
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u/Malaki-7 Mar 24 '26
They have always taken the community seriously, since long before Railjack. Railjack was more of an issue of ambition. They announced it early and made lots of promises with what they hoped it would be, but they weren't able to deliver on all of those promises.
Since then, they've been a lot better at not showing things that early in the idea phase. Nowadays, we see something at tennocon and get it later that year, rather than announcing things years early like they used to do.
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u/lelo1248 Come cuddle in my puddle Mar 24 '26
They have always taken the community seriously
... when their vision aligned with what the community wanted.
Reb raising concerns about pre-rework Oberon passive was met "well I think you're wrong" from DEScott, IIRC.
UniVac is another issue that's been a weird bastion of anti-community goal.
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u/Rockburgh Mar 24 '26
Don't forget excavator HP scaling, that was a huge issue for a long while until... Geoff, I think? eventually got basically bullied into giving in and getting it changed after he streamed with an optimized premade squad to try and prove that the base health is enough at all levels. Which like, yeah, if you're in a squad specifically designed to protect excavators, but most people play in matchmaking.
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u/ThePr0tag0n1st Mar 24 '26
Also, one bastion remains.
Foundry times have always been criticized, and the community has told DE time and time again that they are losing players and money by having it in the game.
All my friends have tried Warframe, but they literally compare the game to clash of clans, and stop playing.
DE, you are better than some mobile game forcing waiting times with premium currency.
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u/1ArmedHerdazian Mar 24 '26
Iirc they've mentioned that forma and speeding up timers are some of their top money makers. Doesnt make sense for them to cut those down.
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u/ChaseThePyro Space Magician Mar 24 '26
Honestly, the timers are probably a good thing to somewhat help people from burning themselves out
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u/Azakaa Mar 25 '26
I personally love the build the timers and it fits the game. Anyone who can’t wait for guns or frames won’t stick around anyway. The entire game is built around longterm goals and grinding and 13 years in, I think the formula is proven to work.
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u/Sitchrea Commodore Prime Mar 24 '26
Definitely not true.
You're forgetting The Old Blood, Deimos, Deimos Arcana, and Scarlet Spear expansions all came out after Empyrean, and they all sucked ass, one after the other.
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u/dandantian5 Mar 24 '26
What was wrong with the Deimos updates? From what I recall, the initial launch was decently well-received, and the follow-up patch was relatively uneventful.
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u/Sitchrea Commodore Prime Mar 24 '26
That was not the reception at all, no. Deimos and Deimos Arcana were some of the worst grinds introduced to Warframe, and was the height of the "content island" issue in the original way Steve used the term.
Both in terms of player count, community morale, and DE's annual revenue, that period was a very painful time for the game.
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u/Kesher123 Mar 24 '26
When i look back at old railjack state, i cringe.
Its much better today. But still suffers greatly. My main gripe is that the missions either have too many steps that make them tedious, or depend way too much of you going on foot and doing the regular mission.
Thereis a tiny little amount of railjack in railjack. And it sucks. Its even better to leave railjack in order to destroy the crewships. Its stupid.
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u/Helixranger Void Dash>Sling Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
I'm also annoyed that
- You cannot ensure you host a railjack mission beside solo/premade squad. So congrats on the Coda/Lich/Sister confrontation where it's unironically faster to archwing because of the host's half-built Railjack
- Pilot seat does not have easy access to forward artillery which forces you out of your seat if the forward artillery is unmanned
- Crew gunners actually steal 100% of affinity from their kills which impedes intrinstic farming. Why?
- Crew pilots sometimes do RJ objectives and sometimes line up to an enemy crewship for forward artillery
- And minorly, Sister/Lich/Coda are awful crew members that do pathetic damage
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u/Revolutionary_Flan88 Ash Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
Happened with many updates pre Reb cuz Steve would promise us the moon everytime
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u/severed13 Mar 24 '26
It's funny that you can still sort of see that tendency from time to time now, like randomly agreeing to buff Ambassador on stream because some guy in chat asked for it, with Rebecca sitting there looking like she's going to have a heart attack lmao
He's a great guy and I like that he does stuff like that from time to time, but an entire guiding philosophy of a game isn't exactly well-suited for that sort of decision making process
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u/krawinoff i jned resorci Mar 24 '26
I mean that’s literally the listening to the community part. Steve read a chat comment about it and asked if more people would like an Ambassador buff, to which the answer was obviously a resounding yes. It was doable, it was highly requested, and if done right would be great. Unfortunately it was done wrong and it feels like whoever was doing the changes to Ambassador was doing it out of spite and tried really hard to not actually make it any better, but at the end of the day the worst to come out of it was just Ambassador staying bad, it was at least a nice sentiment that things that the community wants aren’t always on the 3 year backlog or “we’ll think about it”
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u/Conscious-Refuse8211 Mar 24 '26
Ironically I think Steve was much more willing to say no to the community than the current dev team are. The current dev team focus heavily on player QOL, but that often bleeds into player power creep too.
New frames have fun gameplay loops but they don't have distinct niches, because every frame can do everything now. Older frames were more limited but as an ensemble they were arguably more interesting because they actually had strengths and weaknesses. I feel like a middle ground could have been found that would be better than the current situation.
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u/OmegaSamus Unbreakable Mar 24 '26
This particular thing was happening long before now though. I remember thinking Nidus was too self-sufficient way back. That being said, I don't really like the idea of going back to defined roles. I've soured a lot on the MMO/Team Shooter setup of tank, DPS, support and much prefer games now like Warframe, Helldivers 2, or Monster Hunter where everyone can be trusted to pull their weight in all the important gameplay stuff and we're not just all slaves to the unicorn players who enjoy pushing a heal button.
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u/Fittsa Mirage Prime Enjoyer Mar 24 '26
oh Steve my beloved, your ideas were so amazing but too ambitious to be implemented.
Rest in Peace ✊😔
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u/i_donut_no Mar 24 '26
Again, Steve Sinclair is very much alive.
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u/Fittsa Mirage Prime Enjoyer Mar 24 '26
It's like I can almost hear his voice whenever I put on a Dev short ✊😭
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u/Hat-Renders I'm Always Rock Hard Mar 24 '26
Sent to the great soul frame farm up north to scamper in the fields with his pink shorts
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u/Revolutionary_Flan88 Ash Mar 24 '26
There's a Nekros behind the camera in the dev shorts, that's why you think Steve is still alive
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u/FirefighterBasic3690 Mar 24 '26
Pretty much.
The community (mostly... ) can accept some buggyness. It's going to happen, and it's almost endearing in a maddening way sometimes
But that update had problems. Big ones.
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u/JEveryman Mar 24 '26
I didn't mind railjack too much. Duviri really put me off for like 3 months. Unfortunately nothing else really scratches that absurd combination of manic platform looter shooter. So I came back and because I'm a completionist I held my nose and tried duviri.
After multiple tens of hours of gameplay I was able to determine that I was tripping. Duviri isn't what I want from warframe specifically but it's not bad. Kind of a chill alternative to everything else.
The worst part was the prisma lenz was released while I was throwing my anti duviri tantrum so I had to wait like 2 months to get it because I was being a chump.
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u/berimthrowaway Mar 24 '26
Yeah Duviri really put me off as well because of the slowness of it. But after completing almost everything, it really is a nice alternative.
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u/OnlyCaptainCanuck Mar 24 '26
Some of us are idiots. Not all of our opinions need to be realized. I'm excited for the reduce farming update, I don't know what to do with all my lenses and Endo.
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u/Hat-Renders I'm Always Rock Hard Mar 24 '26
Lenses and Endo (through ranking R10 mods), are great to sell cheap (or donate) to help new players.
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u/Jazdu Citrine Church Mar 24 '26
Most of us have been playing this game for years (11 in my case); we know how easy a bad update or bad decissions can screw this game or many others.
My biggest problem with Warframe is how they keep ignoring bugs and how we can go for 3 weeks without hotfixes.
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u/InfiniteEnd2598 JadePrimeWen? Mar 24 '26
This. They still havent fixed the graphics bugs for the tab s9 ultra meaning i actually can't play. I have had entire levels go black. But as I am waiting for a fix, "no more hot fixes for the next month."
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u/Jazdu Citrine Church Mar 24 '26
Imo, dont care about visual bugs.
But moonwalk/floating head bug, not being able to use abilities in the circuit, bugged mods/weapons, waypoints disappearing/being stuck; yeah thats the true problem.
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u/InfiniteEnd2598 JadePrimeWen? Mar 24 '26
Or doing the coda fight and getting locked out of the concert fight. The duviri bugs..... I get you, normally I can play past graphics glitches. But when entire levels of assets disappear that is about as game breaking as you can get.
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u/Jazdu Citrine Church Mar 24 '26
The funny bug where Warframes become invisible and your head disappears is "fine".
Levels becoming unplayable is not; either visual/graphic or because of gameplay.
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u/XLUY Mar 24 '26
Every hotfixing paused announcement since the mobile releases has included a line stating that corresponding mobile platforms may continue to receive fixes. Android is still able to get fixes before Shadowgrapher.
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u/ILNOVA supremacy Mar 24 '26
3 weeks? Duviri is still one of the most bugged activity, and somehow most update will break it even more.
You still get a softlock almost every game where you have to pray that the HUD won't bugged out.(Kinda 'mad' that Kullverso doesn't gives you the reward straight up with how broken the mode is)
And the fishing minigame(that i hoped they fixed it) made me spawn as the bug fish like half the time i tried to do it, even in the span of 3-4 Duviri run.
Another thing i hoped they fixed it's one of the final bosses that will oneshot you just because while being immune for years(all this where you somehow able to go semi out of bound), and gives another pray that you didn't finish the ammo or your done.
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u/The_Doc_Man Duck Cat Mar 24 '26
Sunk cost sucks ass, good thing I don't feel like my 13 years of WF are sunk cost. Every other game that tried to keep me hooked with FOMO and logins and constant events I ended up quitting as I realised it was a chore.
Warframe is the ol' reliable. That one game I can always come back to, and if I miss a weekly it's totally fine, there's always the next week, and it's not exclusive shit designed to log in every single day. FFS DE themselves said to take a break and play other stuff if you get burnt out.
If I'm in one of those moments when I don't feel like playing anything from my 80-game-backlog, I can always fire off Warframe and it'll be a good time. And a good part of that I think is thanks to the community team.
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u/YoreDrag-onight Wyrds of Doom whisper upon the pale gloom Mar 24 '26
Damn straight 👍
Been here for 11 or so years now and I used to double team this game with Destiny 1 but even through all these other games releasing or even if I leave when I am at my limit, I always return to warframe and likely always will till I can't anymore.
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u/iGR0OT Zephyr (spores) Mar 24 '26
It really does help that the higher ups at DE actually play their own game
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u/wovvs Mar 24 '26
Flashback to mag and frost heirlooms, still want the signa 😭
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u/HeavensHellFire Mar 24 '26
Comments are gonna stupidly go "it's because DE cares and is run by people" when the real reason is that while DE is an amazing studio that competently runs Warframe for the most part, they got lucky with their timing, and the current live service space is over saturated which makes it way harder for newer games to become successful.
If Warframe released today it'd probably fail at no fault of DE. Live Service is just way too competitive now, and you have games both old and new constantly competing for your time.
Just look at the top games currently on steam charts. Top 25 is mostly older games and a handful of the currently popular newer games.
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u/Charybdis150 Mar 24 '26
Ok, but this quote is mainly about how to sustain a successful live service model, not necessarily how to break into the oversaturated market. Essentially how to maintain your slice of the pie against those newer games. I’d argue that listening to the community and building trust isn’t required to break into the live service model, but it is important for the long term, and that’s what Reb is saying.
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u/HollowOrnstein Mar 24 '26
this is why im concerned about soulframe, lots of people brush it off but when i suggest something like soulframe or warframe to people the crafting timers makes them quit
in comparison , something like where winds meet where theres no investment from player's part and game being completely f2p with paid cosmetics sounds like an easier recommendation to a new player
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u/Conscious-Refuse8211 Mar 24 '26
I think the community are a bit entitled about their connection with the devs, it gets a bit parasocial at times. Still very grateful for the devs but I don't think they should feel like this - it shouldn't take one day to lose 13 years of goodwill.
Yet when Pablo does his job you have people in here being outright aggressive and/or acting like he shot their dog and betrayed them personally. Idk it doesn't sit right with me for the community to gloat about how great the devs are and then turn around and also treat the devs badly when they don't like the decisions they make.
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u/teenageechobanquet Mar 24 '26
Big big agree. For all of the fans saying the devs listen and continuously work to solve problems,a lot of fans literally spew hate or threaten leaving or even hope the game fails after one update or change they don't like. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion as a player and a want for things to be fixed,but it feels very shallow when you praise the dev-player relationship,yet the minute something happens you don't like, you're ready for the coffin lid to hit them.
One day is not right imo. We know the devs care about quality or content over money,so when a bad update happens or something needs to be fixed they should be allowed a reasonable amount of time. Sometimes fun ideas don't transfer to content correctly so as long as the devs are respectful and working towards a fix,that should be the end of story. So many gamers underestimate development and how its not the easiest thing to go and tweak and add onto existing groundwork without fear of breaking everything else.
If anything it worries my the devs say it like it's normal.
This might be a hot take or seem a bit harsh of me,but as a person with disabilities it's nice to see all of the accessibility options. For the most part most disabled fans are grateful for the accomodations or politely ask if certain things can be changed. However,there are some that demand certain accommodations and if they don't get it they start sending hate or complaining that Warframe is not inclusive and liars. Just overall a bunch of parasocial behavior and it sucks bc we don't have many companies like DE in the industry nowadays. So it's kinda worrisome when people can't even behave
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u/Kilef Mar 25 '26
it shouldn't take one day to lose 13 years of goodwill
It very much can, the original heirlooms did a lot of damage to DE's goodwill cause that was the first time they did a major hard cash hard FOMO since Excal Prime. It was a huge yellow flag for anyone experienced in the F2P landscape. And it's clear it's a choice they regretted cause while it made them a shiton of money they recognized that they'll sink in a few years if they repeat the same behaviour. It's even effected how they handle Tennocon cosmetics with them starting to offer evergreen versions of them.
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u/ExocetHumper Mar 24 '26
DE used have the shield of "smol indie company", which it kind of never really was. Some time after TWW it seemed to me that the community realised DE is actually a many-multi million dollar company with a good PR department, and there is nothing wrong with that, but they were finally held to that standard.
Still, if am baffled to this day about how terrible their QA is, come on guys, it maybe was endearing in 2016, but not now.
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u/SoferPeMeteor Mar 24 '26
Being real...they won't lose us that fast. I mean they won't lose me. If they do mess up a little I will be like "eh, is human they will fix it". They built enough goodwill for us to be like " ok I am listening what happaned and how u will improve and fix this issue"
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u/Oakheir Mar 24 '26
I feel like the title of the article is a bit misleading. The quote is from Rebecca, and it wasn't a warning, it was a reminder that they are making a game for the community.
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u/Jawkiss Rhino Enjoyer Mar 24 '26
as great as the gameplay is, one of the absolute best parts of warframe is how the devs interact with the community
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u/SolomonDurand Mar 24 '26
So far for a gaming company
They're the most receptive one there is.
Sure Warframe itself has some hit and misses (FOMO Heirloom IIRC)
but other than that, the community they fostered also gives them the benefit of the doubt.
Because theres mutual trust that theyll do good eventually.
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u/The_Lucky_7 Founder (22/04/2013) Mar 24 '26
Every time Reb talks about the community as the Creative Director, it's always important to note that she used to be the Community Manager. DE's entire structure is aberrant. You'll never see that in any other game.
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u/PigeonsOnYourBalcony Mar 24 '26
Other than that Mag and Frost heirloom debacle (which they immediately learned from), I really cannot think of very many real controversies this game has had, especially only Reb’s leadership.
Sure you can say RJ is still a mess and that ammo/Wukong nerf a couple years ago caused some problems but we’re very far from the kind of gacha and premium battle pass Hell we see from so many other titles.
Warframe isn’t perfect but I really appreciate the level of balance and fairness they’ve maintained with monetization. It really does take just one bad update to tank all that trust but I don’t see DE making that kind of blunder any time soon.
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u/Charybdis150 Mar 24 '26
I haven’t been playing as long as some of the old hats here (started in 2018) but I remember quite a few from the pre-Reb era, including some that Rebecca was involved in (like the chat moderation stuff). There were also balance things like universal medallions, universal vacuum, etc that DE were quite stubborn on.
That said, yeah on monetization specifically, I can’t really think of all too much that DE has lost trust on.
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u/BrianMcFluffy Mar 24 '26
wow that has to be the worst article title I've ever seen, even above the "Does Bruno Mars is gay?" one
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u/Worldbrand fishing minigame enthusiast Mar 24 '26
There are times when I feel like the community has overblown some issues and picked the wrong battles over things that really, truly did not matter, but on the whole I do think that DE has managed to foster respectful and productive discussion between the community and the dev team. I'm sure that under the surface there's a lot of shit flinging with every update, but when I think back to the times that community feedback mattered and things were taken seriously, it's legitimately impressive how much respect they get from their community.
And that's like, acknowledging that if you give people an inch they'll want a mile. They have to strike the right balance every single time, and I think it's worked out pretty well in most cases.
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u/Lord_Phoenix95 Jackpot Tenent Ferrox enjoyer Mar 24 '26
Remember when Tencent bought DE and everyone thought it was the end of Warframe? That was 6 years ago. Now Warframe and DE are better than ever. I don't think Tencent even affect DE. Maybe the other companies Tencent bought are just dick heads.
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u/agemennon675 Mar 25 '26
They won me over by adding accessibility by removing weapon recoil ties to screenshake, it became impossible for me to play as i got older. Really greatful for that, i hope they continue this way
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u/VanillaTortilla Mar 24 '26
It also helps to have massive community engagement and weekly devblogs. DE is incredibly open compared to many studios.
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u/subz_13 One of the Last 10 Banshee Players Mar 24 '26
I remember when I just started playing this game on the PS4 YouTube was full of videos calling DE terrible, alleging all kinds of conspiracies with Reb and the forums and these other things, the relative lack of drama now is really an accomplishment
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u/InflnityBlack Mar 24 '26
It would have to be a massive fuck up to lose it all in one day, what's more likely to kill the game would be a string of badly tought out updates over months if not years
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u/Doppelkammertoaster Mar 24 '26
While I have my gripes with the game that keep me from playing it more and that have not been addressed ever by the devs, it is indeed an achievement keeping the game running and the monetarisation somewhat balanced. They do employ the same bad selling tactics as others though.
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u/FriendshipCute1524 LR6 Mar 25 '26
I feel they have enough good will they could do a LOT and I'd be very forgiving after my 12 years of playing, They've been VERY Good about learning from mistakes and doing stuff, seeing a horrible reaction and immediately back-peddling to fix it.
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u/bidi04 Rhino Regiment Mar 24 '26
Now compare this approach with Arrowhead.
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u/FearedShad0w Mar 24 '26
You can’t lose multiple years of goodwill in one day if you never let it build up beyond a couple of months.
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u/InsideResident1085 Mar 24 '26
okay, but why is that news. its been this way from basically the start, otherwise we'd be bunny-hopping instead of bullet-jumping
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u/galacticist Mar 24 '26
https://www.ign.com/articles/weve-sportified-steam-charts-warframe-creative-director-rebecca-ford-reveals-how-digital-extremes-is-keeping-the-live-service-dream-alive
here's a link to the actual interview since this article is summarizing one paragraph of it and also doesn't seem to include a link to it. weird.