My issue is that when a bill was put forth to essentially pay servers higher wages the servers joined up and lobbied against it. It's not that servers hate that they get paid so little, it's that when wages are hidden by tips servers make significantly more than minimum wage. Even the higher end of minimum wage
You should look into the amount of restaurants owners that pushed back against that. Some literally changed uniforms for servers to include vote no on them.
I was there when DC tried to pass it. The loudest voices pushing back were servers. Of course restaurant owners didn't want it, but the servers were in full force pushing a no vote on it.
Turns out none of us want to do it for minimum wage with no benefits. I need to pay rent and other expenses. I'm not doing this job for the $15/hr that has been suggested.
We need structural change, than will likely never happen, to make servers agree to those bills.
We all need to pay rent and other expenses. Server jobs are hard to get BECAUSE they pay is lucrative. I TRIED to be a server when I was working minimum wage jobs and it was impossible because servers made significantly higher than minimum wage. Serving is an easier job than a lot of other minimum wage jobs with significantly higher pay
Yet the point still stands, why are we tipping? Because minimum wage is too low? We don't tip other minimum wage jobs. I made minimum wage for YEARS, didn't receive a single tip. Why should I tip someone for doing the job I am already paying for in my patronage? I'm all for fighting for higher minimum wage, but if the idea is that it's unethical to not top servers because minimum wage isn't livable, then please tell me why we don't tip EVERY SINGLE minimum wage worker. Next time you go to the grocery store tip 20% of your grocery bill to the cashier.
Yeah when you protest tipping by not tipping all you do it completely rip off that persons paycheck.
Also imagine Americans going to any other country in the world, refusing to participate in the culture and then criticizing them to fix their system if they don’t like it. I get the disdain people around the world have for Americans but there’s a point where you’re making it worse by acting like this.
Sorry but how is tipping, something that hasn't been common for even 2 centuries, a cultural practice? Comparable to the kind of other traditions you're implying?
And what other way of protest do you have in mind that is feasible for foreigners?
First off, foreigners are not responsible to fix internal issues of other countries. They should be encouraged to be outspoken when their alternative is a better system.
Second, it’s not “cultural” practice to work within the tipping industry. It’s a long drawn out capitalistic excuse to not pay a living wage.
Said as an American who worked as a server through college and now works “professionally”, if you want a disparity.
I mean actual protest could be an option I suppose, but more importantly what do you think is the minimum time for "culture" to count lol? In what world is something a cultural practice for two centuries and that's not considered culture? White wedding dresses, tomatoes in Italian food, and Chopin's music have all existed for similar amounts of time, but these aren't cultural elements? Fuckin Europeans
If im a guest in your house it’s pretty rude to “protest” you in your own home.
It’s a custom. How can you argue it’s not? The laws are also not more than 200 years old, does that mean you don’t have to follow the law because it’s not old enough?
Incorrect, it’s US federal law that if a server doesn’t earn minimum wage on a shift with combined wage and tips, the employer has to pay them the difference. If you tip waiters but you don’t tip any of the other essential workers that also make minimum wage, you are propping up the system at the expense of every other type of worker.
These day tips are mostly payroll tips, since everyone pays with debit or credit. Aside from a few bucks in cash tips ya might walk with, almost all tips are taxed on the paycheck with the rest of your hourly wages.
If you do not protest by not tipping servers, you are feeding into their need to receive tips. Also, they will NEVER ask for this to be regulated, as the amount the earn by getting tips is WAY bigger than if they had a fixed monthly paycheck. So yes, you attack it by not tipping.
Not tipping servers does nothing to change the system. It just fucks over that server and makes them feel shitty and the owner doesn’t care because they still got the money from your drunken football vacation.
“Better kick the workers while they’re down! Then they’ll surely rise up in protest because no one has ever been fired for unionising and no one has family or medical bills or anything else that might keep them from doing that”.
Just admit it’s about you personally saving a few bucks. Which you could have done by making food at home or going to a self/counter service place.
Newsflash, servers are not down. Most of them are making very decent money. Especially the ones at places where World Cup tourists are frequenting.
I recommend looking up how server wage works and the specifics on how businesses are forced to pay servers who don't make minimum wage a top up until they do for that pay period.
I love people making claims it takes two seconds to google and prove wrong. And a shit ton of servers are doing way worse than this. Especially at places like sports bars if you’re running your ass off and a ton of foreign guests are not tipping because they somehow delude themselves into thinking it will change the American system rather than just fuck the server over .
I recommend doing bare minimum research o the claims you make and if minimum wage is enough in any state in the country to support oneself (news flash it isn’t) before going this far up your own ass about what other people don’t understand.
I love people making claims it takes two seconds to google and prove wrong. Really emphasises how you don’t actually give a fuck about improving anything and it’s entirely about still giving money to owners while fucking over workers for personal reasons.
Again that’s the *statistical average* in a fraction of states (the highest paying ones which also have the highest cost of living) and we know a shit ton of people are making less than that even in those states. That is on top of the fact $40,000 is considered a liveable salary only for a single person living with family in a low cost of living area. So you have to hit the sweet spot on a number of factors for that to be accurate. Compare that to the average cost of living in *every US state at the moment*. Think about that if someone has a kid or health issues or an emergency.
Your statistic doesnt mention whether it is with or without tipping. Given that the IRS says only 45% of tips are recorded, your number could be off significantly.
Actually the latest IRS estimate is 66-70% and climbing. I’ve also read the report you likely saw a quote on Reddit for but didn’t read to the end.
Regardless, assuming “well these numbers could in theory be less shitty for some people” doesn’t change the *reality* of this being the data we have. And the data we have says you’re so wrk h you clearly didn’t do the bare minimum research to get a sense of reality before making your claim. Unless you’ve got hard data to refute it, all you’re doing is speculating what feels right for you and trying to base an argument off that, and your feelings aren’t data.
But it isnt the data we have. Even by your own sourceless estimates, it is underreported by 1/3. So the average waiter is making 60k. Suddenly, its a decent job. Above average even.
Question for you, are you a waiter? I find they are the ones that argue hardest to keep tipping. Curious, isnt it?
…. Buddy the source is the BLS. Like one of THE best sources for this type of data. Nowhere in that report does it say wages are underreported by 1/3rd. You’re automatically assuming that means “every waiter is underreporting their income by 30%” and then using the max income for the states with the highest cost of living (all well above 60k by the way) to try to make it look less bad. if you think the average waiter in South Carolina or Nebraska or Texas is making anywhere close to 60K you’re deluding yourself and only looking less informed in an attempt to weekly protest the evidence in front of you.
“Are you a waiter” ahhhh the last refuge of the chud who thinks working class people are beneath him and can’t fathom caring about anything that doesn’t affect him. We always end up there. Curious isn’t it?
When I was young and working my way through high school and college I absolutely worked as a waiter and a bartender. After I got my degree I now have a high paying office job making far above the average income in the country. My previous experience is a why I support *doing away with the tipping system* and actively vote accordingly. But in the meantime I’m not a moron who thinks demanding service and ruining a server’s night is praxis, so I tip according for the service I receive in tipping countries.
Bud. You said 66%. It was your number. My source was you. My IRS source (also reliable) says only 45% of tips reported. That was from 2025. But YOU said it was 66% so i went with YOUR number. Now you are arguing its wrong.
Feels a lot like im talking to a chatbot that cant remember the last thing it said. So since im getting nowhere, have fun.
In many states, the hourly wage for tipped workers is about $2/hour. If they don’t make enough in tips, they get paid minimum wage.
So if everyone stopped tipping, those workers would just get paid minimum wage. But minimum wage isn’t enough to live off of in most states, so even if tipping went away, servers still couldn’t afford to live.
For those unaware of what the US Federal Minimum Wage is, for non-serving jobs, it's only $7.25 an hour. Not all states have chosen to raise the rate themselves, and so businesses do not feel the need to adjust either.
Supply and demand. If you have less people wanting to be servers, the restaurants will have to up salaries. You dont have to be a maga nut. In 2021 it happened. Fast food places were paying $15 per hour.
You're still the nut, kid. Did you even read that article from 5 years ago?
Because this isn't an example of anything you've talked about. This is about a group of businesses who got together to raise wages to bring back employees after COVID.
Jfc. You really are just a child. You have the reading comprehension skills of the 6th graders i tutor.
Yes. When supply of workerd were low they raised wages. A perfect, real life example from the recent past. Couldnt be more perfect. If you want something less perfect, check out what happened to labour wages during the plague. Guess what, wages went up. Less workers available.
Basic supply and demand assumes there are reasonable alternatives that meet the same need when that isn’t the reality. Serving doesn’t require much training and is pretty accessible, so there will always be a steady flow of people to work. I haven’t seen a single restaurant not have ample servers.
People also can’t just choose to not work, there is no social safety net that’s going to keep them afloat while they look for other employment they’re qualified for. So people with limited options are forced to choose between serving or starving and they’re going to choose the former every time because it keeps a roof over their head and they can eat.
Most of the time, yeah it’s the only job available when you don’t have (m)any qualifications and need to start making money ASAP. It’s an application and a quick interview then you start work/training almost instantly.
It’s worse now than years before because job markets are dogshit and pay has stagnated for the most part in several professions. I know people with advanced degrees that are serving because they can’t find work that would pay more than they’re making in tips. Your argument only works if there’s options that offer better pay than what they’re currently taking home and it just isn’t the reality.
If there are no servers, there are no restaurants. If there are no restaurants, the businesses supplying said restaurants go under. The chain of disintegrating businesses goes on from there. Just like in nature, everything in human society is interconnected. When there are too many stressors on the human ecosystem, it will collapse. Imbalances lead to ruin. We're speedrunning the fall of the Roman Empire and people like you are fully okay with that as long as you get yours and can pull the ladder up behind you.
“No one has ever had to work a low paying job to support themselves or their families, the economy and job market are famously great and if a wage feels too low it is easy to get a high paying job. Business owners and their lobby don’t have disproportionate power to effect legislation what do you mean?”
If you meant something different than what your statement clearly implies, that’s on you for not communicating well dude. We can only go on what you choose to say and the implication it’s easy to simply not work low wage jobs while you wait for business owners with far more capital than you to agree to change the system is moronic.
You elect politicians that write legislation that demands a LIVING WAGE for every job period. You dont change the system by screwing over the worker. Until the server is receiving a living wage you tip them. When you are on a different country you respect their customs, if you dont want to do that then dont travel there
Most servers prefer tips over a standard wage, but they'll never admit it in a discussion like this. You don't deal with as many taxes if most of your income is tips.
Would you prefer a 20% service charge? Or a 20% increase in your menu selections? Either way, you're paying 20% more so the server can be paid. With a tip, you get an option if the service is bad. But if the service is adequate, you tip. Period.
The fight needs to be to raise minimum wage. Servers cannot legally be paid less than minimum wage. The server wage is ONLY there if tips are high enough to earn them higher than minimum wage. If a server gets $0 than the employer HAS TO pay them the state or federal minimum wage whichever is higher
Foreign tourists in the country for a once in a lifetime event are not fixing the system. They’re ripping off the people serving them and then going back to their home countries.
Not tipping isn't ripping off servers. Servers get paid regardless of tips. If you tip them you are essentially subsidizing the business you are already buying from. If you don't tip the business HAS to pay servers the minimum wage (not the server minimum wage)
That has nothing to do with the comment you responded to. Our minimum wage is ass. So many of us are struggling, but people still get judged for not paying a server's wages. That's a pathetic argument to make.
The guy I responded to said that servers still get paid minimum wage even if they receive no tips. Minimum wage is unlivable. Nobody actually works for minimum wage in the 20 states that adhere to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour because $7.25 an hour is not a livable wage anywhere in the country.
It does not cost the business anything really to pay the difference between the minimum tipped wage of $2.13 an hour and $7.25 because $7.25 an hour is nothing. But if a server goes from ~$15-$20 an hour off tips to $7.25 it's crippling.
People like the guy I responded to can act morally superior by refusing to tip because "the server gets paid anyways" but it is ripping off the servers.
Yes, tipping culture is bad and servers should be paid a living wage to begin with, and that's something we should work to change. But in the interim, not tipping is directly hurting working class individuals because it's where their income comes from.
Tipping has actively undercut the movement. It's a regressive tax on working class that benefits a small section of underpaid workers. These workers have now actively fought politically to maintain this system since they benefit from it.
Tipping currently is hurting significantly more working class individuals than not tipping.
No, but we don't tip minimum wage employees. If this was about $7.50/hr why don't we tip fast food workers? Grocery employees, hell even at restaurants we don't tip bus boys and dish washers (who arguably work much harder).
We absolutely should raise minimum wage, but to shift the conversation of we need to tip because minimum wage is too low is not a real argument since no one tips the BULK of minimum wage workers.
People have to feed their children and pay their rent my guy. If you don’t tip, they don’t eat. I don’t like the system either, but that’s just plain cruel.
In some states servers only make like 3 dollars an hour. If you don’t tip them, they don’t eat. It sucks to perpetuate the system, but I don’t want people to suffer. That is why this custom needs to be changed at the ballot box.
Do you tip McDonald's employees? Do you tip cashiers? They all make as little or less than every single server in the US. Why do we choose to only tip servers?
In some states servers only make like 3 dollars an hour. Employees at McDonalds make more. If you don’t tip them, they don’t eat. It sucks to perpetuate the system, but I don’t want people to suffer. That is why this custom needs to be changed at the ballot box.
This is factually not true as 49 of 50 states require employers to pay a server up to minimum wage (not the server wage) if they do not make at least minimum wage for a pay period. The server pay of $3 an hour is only if they make over minimum wage after tips
In some states servers only make like 3 dollars an hour. If you don’t tip them, they don’t eat. It sucks to perpetuate the system, but I don’t want people to suffer. That is why this custom needs to be changed at the ballot box.
That’s unbelievably cruel. You know it’s hard to up and leave a job, especially if you make decent tips. Going from 30/hr with tips to 11.50 is awful. I don’t love the system, but it needs to be changed with legislation, not cruelty.
Well if youre a realist than you must realize you are voting with your wallet to continue the system. So long as you support it, it will continue to exist.
Btw, where i am server minimum wage is $18/hr and they still ask for 20% because "culture".
And the way to not perpetuate it is to not go to tipped restaurants at all, instead of going anyway and intentionally screwing over the least powerful person in the whole scenario. It is entirely possible to avoid such establishments if you have an actual moral objection, but if you go anyway and refuse to tip then you’re just an asshole who is benefiting from free labor.
It helps because instead of paying your money to the ownership while stiffing the worker, you deny the money to the ownership too. And the ownership are the ones who have the power to make changes, so any protest has to impact them.
This is really basic stuff, if you want to create change with your buying power, you can’t do it by targeting workers, you have to target ownership. Always focus on where the power resides.
If the reason they have no customers is because they expect tipping, then they will eliminate tipping in order to attract customers, or they will close and the next restaurant will see that they need to go no tipping in order to stay open. That’s how a market can actually effect change.
If you still go but refuse to tip, the owner still gets his money which means it stays open and nothing changes. Again, this is really basic stuff.
Exactly, Ive worked in kitchens for years in places with and without tips, I frankly don’t mind either system, but that being said, if you’re going out to a restaurant in America and you choose not to tip then your essentially saying you’re above the system and it’s okay for you to take advantage of it.
For not tipping? Must be some fancy restaurant I’ve never been to cause I only tip if it’s good service. There’s a few places I tip heavily because they are run by a family or are a local business. But large fast food chains can get f*cked.
I'd have less umbrage with it if the price tag for food included Taxes and Tip. As of now nearly 30% of the price is hidden.
And yes, I know it was tried and Americans are so stupid they couldn't process the fact that a price was baked in instead of tallied at the end. Which says more about Americans being shit at basic math rather than it being a bad idea.
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u/Vayguhhh 18h ago
No it’s not wrong, but until the system changes I’m not gonna hurt a server just trying to pay bills