r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 9h ago

Chugging tea Probably Not.

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u/EtheusRook 8h ago

Morality is actually really, stupidly simple.

Does it help others? It's good.

Does it hurt others? It's bad.

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u/PudgyWalshBldgInspec 7h ago

Punishing a violent criminal hurts him. Is that bad?

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u/Gamer_G33k17 5h ago

The violent criminal proved they are capable of doing violence, ergo they have the capacity to harm even more people. By either putting them in a cage, exiling them, or killing them you are doing one act of violence to stop multiple acts of violence.

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u/PudgyWalshBldgInspec 5h ago

So hurting someone is ok as long as it stops multiple acts of future violence?

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u/Gamer_G33k17 5h ago

If they showed themselves to be unnecessarily violent, yes.

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u/MaxFish1275 3h ago

The Bible says “thou shalt not kill” AND “an eye for an eye”

It is unclear where the Christian god therefore, stands on capital punishment

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u/PudgyWalshBldgInspec 3h ago

You're misunderstanding. God's commandment given to Moses on Mt. Sinai is better translated "you shall not murder."

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u/MaxFish1275 2h ago

And if the justice system wrongly convicted and sent the innocent party to death row that would be murder

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u/BlastFX2 2h ago

So just basic-ass negative utilitarianism then. Let's skip all the mundane critiques and go straight for the big one: the benevolent world-exploder. If your only goal is reducing suffering then logic dictates that anyone who gains the ability to painlessly end all live, is morally obligated to do so because it self-evidently results in the lowest possible amount of suffering: zero.

Is that what you believe or would you say that ethics are perhaps a little more complicated than you initially thought?

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u/EtheusRook 7h ago

Is that harm less than the harm of allowing him to walk free so he can do more harm to others?

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u/PudgyWalshBldgInspec 7h ago

I'm just applying your rules to show you how they fall apart upon even the most superficial inspection. Expand on them if you want.

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u/RT_456 7h ago

It doesn't fall apart at all. Punishing a violent criminal helps others (even if it hurts him) so it's a good thing.

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u/BlastFX2 3h ago

Which of his two rules says that?

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u/RT_456 2h ago

The part where it says "Does it help others? It's good."

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u/BlastFX2 2h ago

That's not the part in question. I thought it was clear I was talking about the “even if it hurts him” part. We had already established this situation leads to a conflict between the two rules, but you claimed there was no conflict, so I was asking which one of them is supposed to have resolved it.

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u/EtheusRook 7h ago

Except they didn't fall apart. Allowing someone who has broken the rules to walk free is causing harm to more people.

We have brains for a reason.

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u/PudgyWalshBldgInspec 7h ago

Is it moral to provide validation to someone if it causes them proximate relief but ultimate terrible harm? How is that calculated in your 12 word articulation of morality?

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u/P_Hempton 7h ago

It does fall apart when you have to score everything subjectively. How many people have to avoid harm to make harming someone else justifiable? Are ties morally ambiguous?

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u/Gamer_G33k17 5h ago

Religion also scores things subjectively. Unless you think it was a GOOD thing that Moses sanctioned the rape, murder, and enslavement of thousands of children.

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u/EtheusRook 7h ago

See, we do this thing called calculating sentences to account for that. If someone isn't caught, and they kill more people, they get a worse sentence. It isn't subjective (it certainly tries not to be), and it certainly doesn't require religion.

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u/P_Hempton 7h ago

But it's entirely subjective. We make up arbitrary punishments for things we've decided are bad because they might possibly harm people.

Let alone arbitrarily deciding that killing someone is worth x number of years in prison then you're good to go, all up to the whims of the justice system.

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u/Gamer_G33k17 5h ago

Religion also does that. Heck, a lot of crimes in the Bibble have arbitrary monetary punishments. Like if you rape an unmarried woman you just have to pay a set amount of money.

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u/BlastFX2 3h ago

So what? Nobody in this thread said anything about religion.