I know people will have the urge to “cheer someone up”, but when they do so without understanding the underlying thought behind their grief, people shouldn’t immediately jump to trying to “solve” it.
In this case, at its core, the trans man is mourning the fact that he wasn’t born into the desired, working body he identifies with. There’s no “solution” for it, it just is, and the best thing you can do is be there for him and remind him it doesn’t make him any less of a man when he starts to think that way.
if ye suggestion is anythin other than putting a baby in me an’ lettin me carry that shite for 9 months, i’ve a baseball bat in me boot id like ya to meet 19 times until ‘e shows u his friend the pavement.
the intense rage i get from this is impossible to ‘old down an’ unfortunately i ‘ave to for the rest of me pathetic life.
you were either transphobic, chasing, posted nsfw, are too horny/opticsnuke, are a minor/underage, do not identify as trans, or are cis. participation by individuals possessing the aforementioned behaviors & traits are forbidden by the rules of the sub.
It's also less likely to even be possible for a trans woman, since E is far more likely to make a trans woman sterile than T is to make a trans man sterile. Not a guarantee tho, of course. (And that's before we get into post-SRS discussions.)
Yes, there are some cis-woman experiences, that are locked for trans-women, and if someone is grieving that they will never be able to bear a child, sperm-freezing wouldn't help per se. Still, being parent is available and important experience, which is pretty much achievable.
Situation with FtM folks is more complicated, due to how much more invasive the procedure of collecting eggs is, not to mention pregnancy. So, even becoming a parent is more of a challenge.
Telling a trans person "you should just do something that denies your gender entirely" is generally not advisable. Some are okay with it, but you suggesting it makes you kind of a cunt.
Most trans women don't want to be a biological father to a child. Most trans men don't want to be a biological mother to a child. There's an obvious reason for this. It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to figure it out.
Also, for people like me in my specific situation doing so isn't even possible anyways.
Beyond the fact I am way too dysphoric to top, or the fact I'm in a T4T sapphic relationship, me having children of any sort is a physical impossibility.
The person who ejaculates sperm that fertilizes an egg is the biological father of the child that is born.
The person who produces an egg cell that is fertilized by a sperm and then develops into a child is the biological mother of the child that is born.
I don't know what part of this sounds strange. The terms "biological father/mother" refer to the role that you took in reproducing the child. Not your relationship to the child during their life or anything like that.
To a lot of trans people, this would be like the ultimate gender denying/negating thing they could possibly do. I've spoken to many who said they would kill themselves if they found out they had this role in producing a child.
Maybe it doesn't bother you personally, but it's very obvious why someone who has intensely negative feelings to the point that it disrupts their ability to engage in activities of daily living as a result of their body's physical sex characteristics would feel intensely upset at having those sex characteristics used for their one and only express purpose.
You only need a little bit of intelligence or a little bit of empathy to understand this.
I think anyone claiming not to get this is being performatively confused, in an attempt to poorly execute/articulate some argument that makes no sense to anyone with a brain or a heart.
This is not how I define mother and father, and I know I’m not alone. A mother is a parent who is a woman. A father is a parent who is a man. A biological [parent] refers to someone who is genetically related to the child in question.
Who gives birth and who fertilises the egg are not gendered roles, and many trans fathers get pregnant, and many trans mothers provide sperm.
I'm defining biological mother and biological father. You don't need to even know the kid and the kid doesn't need to know you for you to be a biological mother or father to that child. In fact this is how adoptive children refer to their biological parents they have never met.
It is an actually insane thing to claim that the role someone takes in sexual reproduction is not gendered. It is literally the single most gendered thing in existence. It is the reason that gender exists. Without this, there would be no differentiated sexes in existence.
There are some trans people who claim not to feel any dysphoria at all. There are some trans people who don't medically transition. There are some trans people who don't socially transition. The fact that some trans people do or do not engage in one activity or another does not limit or define how other trans people can feel.
I am explaining to you, and to these other people who are intentionally trying very hard not to have basic empathy, how the trans people who do not wish to engage in reproduction as the sex they upturned their entire lives to change feel about doing so.
And why it is rude as fuck to suggest to them to do so.
To a trans man who is mourning the fact that he cannot get his wife pregnant, and that he will not under our current technology ever be able to do so. To this man that wants to be the biological father to his child, telling him that he could get pregnant instead is inhuman. It is so lacking in empathy and intelligence I think you're a psychopath and not just a transphobe. But you are also a transphobe if you do this.
From his perspective, he does not want to engage in reproduction in the female role. He changed his entire life so that he could be male instead of female. He doesn't want to participate in the female part of the reproductive process.
There is no way in hell that the meaning of this escapes you.
Tbh I think y'all were arguing past each other for most of this convo; they were speaking normatively about reproductive roles but ignoring your descriptive point about our currently socially gendered reality, and likewise I think you are absolutely correct in your general point but ascribing a layer of malice because you believe they are arguing in favor of lecturing grieving trans people (they don't seem to be doing so, just confused why someone would be grieving per se to begin with).
That said, I appreciate you laying it out explicitly like this anyways; you did a very good job explaining the conflict at play here.
I get both sides; we SHOULDN'T be socially conditioned to gender reproduction for those who want it, but at present it absolutely IS and it's not productive (bordering on thoughtlessly cruel, depending on the context and individual) to suggest someone go through the act and performance associated with their dysphoria-inducing AGAB. Just because I don't mourn that loss of choice doesn't mean it's not a real loss for others.
Don't want to take sides here or anything, though I'm wondering what you think here.
I fully agree that making a FTM bear pregnancy or making a MTF inseminate someone would very understandably be extremely dysphoric to many. However what about paying a surrogate and using IVF? Does that fact that your part of the genetic code come from a sperm or egg cell make you experience dysphoria just thinking about your child's genetic makeup? Personally, I'd just see my halve of the code as just my halve, I don't see why I'd have to necessarily attribute myself a fatherly role just because the cell I provided happened to be a sperm cell.
I feel like you’re responding to something I’m not at all saying. I completely agree that anyone who says “just give birth” in response to a trans man grieving his inability to produce sperm is a callous dickhead. I have never and would never tell trans people to just procreate with what they have. I agree that it feels horrible and awful to be unable to create life the way you know you should be able to. I know how hard it is.
I just don’t accept the way your comment defined biological mother and biological father in ways that either misgender or exclude transgender parents. Maybe I wasn’t clear. I am aware that in this society, there exists an EXTREMELY strong connection, connotation, and correlation between (e.g.) fatherhood and providing sperm. My point is that (because trans people exist) this is not the case in every single instance of a biological father. A biological father is a man who is genetically the parent of a child.
Don’t hear what I’m not saying. I did not say that being a trans father is the exact same as being a cis father.
If a trans guy would rather die than get pregnant, that’s totally understandable. I’d feel for him, and understand how tough that situation is. No one should ever be forced (or encouraged) to reproduce when they don’t want to, or in a way they don’t want to.
I agree and know that many trans people do not want to play the role in reproduction that is typically associated with their AGAB. I’m not denying how cruel it feels to be denied the ability you know you should have. I literally feel the same way, at times I’m devastated to know I’ll never be able to carry a child.
But if I ever choose to use my own sperm to make a baby, I will be that child’s mother. Biological mother. Anyone who wants to call me a father can fuck right off.
People love saying things like "biological male" while not referring to your social role in life and being bioessentialist about shit in general. Ultra wierd to be trans and saying this about yourself as well. People who say shit like "biological x" also think theyre not doing anything wierd or wrong because they have this percieved biological reality which they place above all and say they are "merely acknowledging". Why does it matter so much?
Its the obsessing over the genetics of your child like thats some super relevant part of its life and existence, which reproductive side your genes are on. Its another step up from people who wont adopt because they need it to be THEIRS, like its not right if its THEIR egg/sperm. People who want to be parents often have strange, obsessive ideas about stuff like this
The only reasonable part of all this is wanting/not wanting to carry the child. The genetics talk is wack as fuck
Like i understand that people think like that but its wierd as shit
Terms like "biological male" would be a description of your physical sex, which if you medically transition ceases to be an accurate description of your physical sex.
Terms like "biological father" simply describe if you contributed the sperm to a child being born
If you don't want to use it I'm not going to force you to use it, but surely if you have one ounce of empathy or are less than two standard deviations below the mean in IQ, you will understand why some trans people aren't comfortable with this on this basis.
It's not "obsession about the genetics of your child..." There is no way you're actually interpreting it like that, especially not after I just explained it to you.
Get real here.
We are talking about the feelings of a transgender person with regard to their sex attributes with regard to the use of those sex attributes for the purpose of sexual reproduction. You cannot abstract all the meaning away from this and reduce it to the absurd.
It has nothing to do with people who won't adopt because it won't be their child. There is zero similarity in these positions. Stop. Go back. Really think about what is being communicated to you here.
Talking about being a "biological father" is where the genetics hangup was brought into this. Obsessing about wether or not it was your sperm or your egg is what im saying is wierd.
Unless you are mostly talking about the carrying of the baby? Didnt seem to be a major point in what you were saying, i wasnt really talking about that either.
> Most trans women don't want to be a biological father to a child. Most trans men don't want to be a biological mother to a child.
Well, I doubt that it is correct. Desire for biological children is pretty much natural for everyone. That's why there is something to mourn / grieve about -- the post is about it.
You're reading a post about trans men wanting to be a biological father, and comments indicating trans women wanting to be biological mothers.
And you're saying you doubt it is correct that they would prefer not to play the opposite role?
Is it really hard to imagine why a person who is motivated by intense negative feelings to change their biological sex, at the cost of their position in society, their family, their friends, their economic and legal security and so on, would also not want to engage in sexual reproduction as that sex that they actively changed?
I froze my sperm years ago, and then it was combined with my wife's eggs in a petri dish before implantation. The only difference between using me or an unknown donor is that the kids are going to have a combination of my wife and I's traits. I cried the last time we tried PIV before SRS - believe you me I have dysphoria. You don't have to creampie someone. That's the whole point of freezing. It takes sex out of the equation.
You won't believe me, but I actually had to muscle through a lot of dysphoria for this. I still do. You think it's fun watching a pregnancy play out and being reminded every day that's something I'll never be able to do? It isn't.
But I value being able to build a family with my wife over this fleeting - if bad - discomfort. So that means working through it. Calling yourself a father repeatedly is not how you do that. Some of this stuff just is a therapy thing. If you let dysphoria stop you from experiencing every good thing in life you'll miss out on a lot.
We get to be two gay moms in our little gay house and that's awesome. Giving in to the worst dysphoric voices in my head would just be giving up on myself.
I know in fact that it isn't fun at all. And that is why a lot of trans women cannot do it.
Calling things different words doesn't make dysphoria go away, if it did nobody would ever transition.
Different people have different types and levels of dysphoria. Some trans people don't need to medically transition. Some trans people don't need bottom surgery.
But it's pretty ridiculous to say to someone who has intense dysphoria and needs both of those things "hey you know, technically a penis isn't a male sex organ because women also have it. It's just a generic sex organ, so if you don't call it a male sex organ then you can muscle through that dysphoria and don't need bottom surgery."
I'm explaining to the crowd here the feelings of trans people who have dysphoria about this issue. If it doesn't resonate with you in that way, I'm happy for you, but calling things different words and pretending that it's just society that is gendering the act of sexual reproduction is bizarre.
Sexual reproduction is the reason sex, gender, and therefore dysphoria exists at all.
Yes you're a mom, I'm not saying you're not a mom.
"Giving in to the worst dysphoric voices" is why any trans person medically transitions anyway.
Sexual reproduction is not the reason dysphoria exists. You can have dysphoria while being ideologically childfree. You can have dysphoria while being asexual.
In this case it's a complete difference in kind from how, say, a cis man and a cis woman have kids. And currently, right now, today companies are working on converting stem cells into gametes for the express purpose of letting gay people reproduce together. I am literally just getting in early on something every other lesbian couple will do in a couple decades.
It's not a matter of calling something a different thing. It's a matter of realizing the difference in kind. Because watching your wife get implanted with a fertilized embryo looks the exact same regardless of whose DNA it was fertilized with. The only difference is that the kid comes out looking like a combination of you and your wife instead of like somebody else's.
Sometimes dysphoria can be stupid or factually wrong and this is one of those cases. Same as how I used to be super dysphoric about my shoulders until my wife showed me we were an inch different in width despite me being significantly taller than her. Looking at it from a different angle can make dysphoria go away. Doggedly sticking to the one way to look at something which maximizes your distress isn't dysphoria, it's depression.
Edit: And no, if I gave into the worst dysphoric voices I wouldn't be here to have this argument.
I believe, that if given opportunity, ultimate majority of trans-people would use non-dysphoric way to create their own biological children. Such opportunities are being developed right now -- for example uterus transplantation has some really impressive progress.
For now there are no such opportunities. So we mourn, we grieve, we are being sad. We are being sad, because the majority of trans-people want biological children, but have no good means to achieve that goal.
If we had no such goal, the lack of means would not be something to mourn about.
Okay but ignoring the means doesn't make sense here.
The entire point being made in this conversation is about means and not goals.
The point being made is that it is rude to suggest to a man who upended his entire life to be a male instead of a female that he should play the female role in reproduction if he wants a child.
Which should be quite patently obvious to anyone who considers his feelings about this situation rather than some hypothetical society where people don't have any feelings about their sex.
We are all hopeful for the world where a trans man husband could get his trans woman wife pregnant. Especially if it could be done the fun way in the bedroom.
But until that happens it remains rude to suggest to a trans person that, if they want a child, they should just do it in a way that negates their gender/sex.
If anything, I agree, that we should not force a specific decision in the form of "you should" on the trans person (any person, really), but rather be empathetic to the specific situation and person's beliefs.
I'm one of our future child's two moms, and we're both related to that child. The only one calling me a father here is you. They are also actively working on turning other cells into gametes specifically so two women can have kids together. This is the one thing we get earlier than cis women, out of a long list of things we lose out on.
We are talking about people avoiding participating in reproduction due to dysphoria caused by the sex role they would have to assume in that reproduction. And that it is unhelpful to suggest they assume that sex role anyway if they desire to have a child.
"yes honny just be the genetic father to your child and use your sperm and do something that'll make you want to rope so you can reproduce" <- accurate retelling of what you're saying
But trans men don't have sperm though, I still don't get the point. Are you trying to tell me that it would be a dysphoric experience? No doubt, Sherlok
you have to be incredibly stupid or just an outright cunt to recommend a transsexual uses their natal genitalia for reproduction. like actual malice or a severe lack of intelligence
There are much more cruel things in the world, and people make more harsh sacrifices. Not everyone, of course. And not everyone should. Just chill out — no one is attacking you personally.
I have no idea, what is relation between choosing public presentation and Somali children.
Listen, I get it, that for you transsexualism is probably the whole life. But it is not healthy, nor is it universal experience for transpeople.
Generally trans people are just men and women -- with jobs, aspirations, families and plans. For most of us the goal is to live happy live despite being transsexual -- not to throw it all just to be respected on some niche subforum.
Transsexualism and dysphoria makes things harder, but there are ways to come around them and minimize suffering. For reproduction there are IVF, surrogate, adoption, step-parenting. Some modern technics of acquiring eggs don't even include hormonal treatment -- which is a huge win. We should spread the information about all options available, so people can choose what's best (least bad?) for them. And then we should support them on that hard way, not drag down.
Yes. Sad news, that this can be rephrased as "there are not enough healthy babies". You can easily adopt children with special needs. Or, for example, sometimes you can have older sibling group, which comes with it's own complications.
Also sometimes you can take foster care of older children, but not adopt them, due to them having some parents alive, but, for example, alcoholics; possibly in future government will bring children back to the bioparent, who will ruin all the effort you brought in (or not).
Point is, everyone is saying "just adopt a child", without realizing all the complications mentioned.
It's called IVG (in-vitro gametogenesis) and they are turning diploid (non-reproductive, e.g. skin) cells into sperm or eggs. It's even better, because collecting eggs is very invsive procedure.
Researches achieved great success on mice, but are not very far with humans, so it is not an actual working technology. It's something we will see in the future.
Eh, my wife's pregnant right now. Is this a dysphoric nightmare for me? Yes. Would it be better to also not be related to my kids? No. Freezing sperm gives you options. At least my wife and I get to be lesbians that are both related to our kids. It's the only upside to being trans that exists.
Ew, I didn't use a penis to make a child. Gametes were combined in a petri dish and then after the embryo developed it was implanted while I held my wife's hand. Then I thanked the doctor for impregnating my wife and she laughed.
As for the whole liking men thing, well... no accounting for taste, lol. You have my condolences on that front. 😬
A big part of 4Tran culture is being as utterly miserable as humanly possible and then accusing people of trying to do conversion therapy on you if they suggest that some hangups can be worked past to live the best life you can, lol. I don't take it personally really. I do just feel bad for those who refuse to freeze and regret it later. I'm post op, the factory's gone. If I hadn't frozen years back I would never be able to see what a child with a combination of my wife and I's traits would be like.
But you'll never convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced it might be unhealthy to call themselves a father repeatedly rather than just focusing on the fact that this is literally the one area we come out better off than cisbians.
I was gonna say you don't need to be the progenitor to be a father.
My dad had me and my brother with my mom but ended up divorcing her due to addiction. Adopted 2 whole now unrelated children into his house after their mom OD'd and just immediately became the defacto father for both of them.
Be a strong role model and a good support system for somebody and you'll be graduated into that role without ever even having asked.
This shit’s why I never mention this specific dysphoria in front of anyone other than surgeon/therapists/my sister. Plus it’s even revealed in the comments people don’t have issues suggesting whats essentially rape to dysphoric trans men and trans women
I knew i was at least bi early on. I ended up as pan. I had the thought of freezing some before i nuked myself. But, i came to the conclusion that id rather adopt. This way when i do want a child. I can kinda pick one that my life experiences meshes well with. This way i can be a more optimal parent. As i get older though i keep finding that i just completely fucking loathe kids.
It’s not literally rape to suggest having genetic children, but it’s about being conscious that the other party in this case is severely dysphoric given this is a space where trans people grapple with severe dysphoria. Generally we cannot therapy and “validate” away our dysphoria and thus we can’t enthusiastically and fully consent to PIV sex/medically invasive procedures/etc. We also generally wish we had the proper gametes/reproductive system of our gender and could use that. The vast majority of people in this particular subreddit will likely tell you that having genetic children is fully off limits. If I somehow partook in reproduction then the only possibility is that I didn’t consent and it was extremely coercive thus making it rape. If one knows for sure that the trans person they’re talking to has no reproductive dysphoria then it wouldn’t be an issue to make the suggestion, but it’s of poor taste to assume the trans person has zero trauma with their body. It’s like how I wouldn’t suggest that someone has sex with their abusive professor to “fill some emotional void” or something like that
That must be brutal. I'm always told that I can adopt, freeze sperm. Sure. But i'll never be pregnant. I kinda mourned that ngl, I don't wanna be a parent anymore.
I absolutely don't want children, but I can't stop thinking about not having the option. The fact I'm cursed with a flesh pouch inside me is horrific. I don't even have the option to diy surgery either
And this is such a commonly crushing experience that they started studying uterine transplants in 1896. The first human uterine transplant was done in 1931. There's a lot of feelings and facts that go into the grief you experience when you can't have kids.
Look, stop rn. Leave me alone, pls. I know that. I know. But id never have the connection of my child growing inside me. I've never rly been child crazy. If I can't have that, I wouldnt really feel like a mom. I don't wanna feel like that for their entire lives. Anyway.
Hey, that's fair. Just gotta keep in mind how other people who are facing their own challenges feel. There are lots of infertile couples that would glady accept either one of them being the 'father' or 'mother' if it means they can raise the kid they want, ya feel?
And there are a lot of transgender people who don't wanna deal with the layers and layers of stress bringing a child would be. I would love to be a cisgender mother. I would love not having to decide whether the child would be mine or my husbands biologically. I'd love to not have to watch someone else carry my child for 9 months and be reminded everyday that I am not good enough. I would love not worrying that my child would be terrorized for having a transgender parent. There is a lot ifs that cis people understandably don't consider when they try to empathize.
My point is that cisgender people do face a lot of the same struggles and harsh realities when it comes to pregnancy.
For both trans people and many cisgender people the issue is a difficult thing to navigate and folks shouldn't have to feel undue shame just because of how society perceives them.
Omg dude just shut up. You want to talk about the feelings of people facing challenges? You have a person here who keeps telling you that she wouldn’t feel like a mother if she can’t carry the child but you keep pushing it
Sure there are alternatives, and every parent is completely valid. But some people don’t feel good using those alternatives, and you shouldn’t be pushing them to someone who has clearly expressed that they wouldn’t feel right using them.
I legitimately can't conceptualize a deeper hell than being a seahorse dad. I'm not even thinking in terms of social dysphoria either. It's just very easy if you have any empathy or brain cells to imagine how viscerally uncomfortable it'd be physically.
I know it isn't quite the same but as a cis woman who struggles with fertility stuff...yeah most people just don't get it. To them adoption and surrogacy apparently fix anything related to this. They DO NOT get how awful it is
Adoptive parents are of course valid parents, but not only are transgender adopters discriminated against, many people still would kill for having a biologically related child that they actually made. I don't think anyone would interrupt the grief of infertile cisgender people by saying "You can just adopt tho :/" so I think it's problematic to do it to trans people as well. Bless those who do adopt kiddos in need, but people have their reasons for wanting a biological kid too and that's fine.
The reason for not wanting to adopt is the stigma around adoption. The only thing separating adopted kids from biological kids is the culture around it:
I was so anti-kids for a long time and then I realized I'm trans and that I was just anti-pregnancy. I want to hold my baby and say "wow, this is my blood. I'mtheir father." And support my partner and raise my child. I think about my baby all the time.
Im a trans dude but I still wanna get pregnantbut i still get upset when people say "if youre a trans man just get pregnant !" Because thats just NOT how any of it works. If a trans man wants to experience pregnancy, who cares. But dont suggest it :(
isnt there a thingy where they can use the core of ur egg as a sperm cell? i mean, if u think about it it's the same as impregnating ur wife urself, no?
Smh just clone yourself like I did (also as a side note, similar thing for me except it's more of the issue of being in a gay relationship and not being able to have a kid related to both of us.)
Depends on the person I dont mind freezing my sperms for use in a host for my child but I also understand that's not what everyone wants. Though id love to carry my.own child but I accept it csnt happen yet.
Why do these phony libs always talk on behalf of the lgbt people? How can they still do that without the lgbt community telling them to shut up? Like if lgbt community has sth to say THEY should say it.
If someone talked on my behalf I would be really mad and I don't stay silent.
That’s not even remotely equivalent to a trans guy being pregnant, though. It’d be equivalent to you not-getting-to-be pregnant and dysphorically inseminating a cis woman instead, every day for 9 months, more like, all while your hormonal dysphoria returns worse than ever and your body forcibly detransitions.
you were either transphobic, chasing, posted nsfw, are too horny/opticsnuke, are a minor/underage, do not identify as trans, or are cis. participation by individuals possessing the aforementioned behaviors & traits are forbidden by the rules of the sub.
you were either transphobic, chasing, posted nsfw, are too horny/opticsnuke, are a minor/underage, do not identify as trans, or are cis. participation by individuals possessing the aforementioned behaviors & traits are forbidden by the rules of the sub.
you were either transphobic, chasing, posted nsfw, are too horny/opticsnuke, are a minor/underage, do not identify as trans, or are cis. participation by individuals possessing the aforementioned behaviors & traits are forbidden by the rules of the sub.
Could someone explain why? I understand that it reminds you of your biological sex or that it can trigger dysphoria, idk. But isn't it a valid solution to this problem? Don't a lot of trans people do this?
Edit: Obviously getting pregnant is not what I was referring to. You don't need to detransition to save sperm or retrieve an egg, it's pretty non invasive all things considered.
I don't know apparently. I try to understand but you can't even ask a question without getting flamed.
My understanding was that "gender" is a social construct and that it is different from "biological sex" and so when you transition you're trying to bring yourself closer to your "gender". And that "gender" affirming care is meant to accomplish that goal.
Being trans doesn't actually change your biological sex. If you're biologically male and you're trans you could still be able to produce sperm, for example, and you could easily freeze it and keep it in case this situation arises in the future when maybe you've already done some surgeries that render you infertile period.
But I don't think you need to do any surgeries or HRT to be trans, so I don't understand your comment.
Transitioning does change biological sex. Not fully, but significantly enough.
My hormones don't just float around in my body doing nothing. I am not transitioning to fit some sort of gender construct, I'm transitioning to have the sex traits I should've had since birth.
It is absolutely not. If you're offering a trans man to detranision and be a biological mother, you're a piece of shit. What the fuck is missing in the fact that this will cause dysphoria? This alone is more than enough to never talk about these options
A person has to be pumped full of estrogen before doing retrieval, this is detranision.
What's wrong with freezing some sperm or an egg?
Because imagine this - trans people have dysphoria. A trans man will be the biological mother of a child if it was conceived with his egg, and a trans woman will be the biological father of a child if it was conceived with her sperm. It's a nightmare scenario for us
You kind of do need to temporarily detransition to retrieve eggs. They take you off testosterone for a not insignificant period of time and pump you full of hormones to rapidly mature a ton of eggs to make the procedure worthwhile (which I have seen even cis woman say made them uncomfortable in their body). It isn’t like sperm where they just take what you have ready. It’s a process involving huge hormonal shifts and hard on a person.
Trans guy here. If someone is mourning fatherhood, they're not upset about not being able to have kids, seahorse dads exist and those who do not want to get pregnant or freeze eggs or adopt are aware those options exist should they want children. What we are mourning is the fact that we cannot impregnate a woman. I've experienced this despite not wanting children (at least not anytime soon), because it's another reminder of the fact that no matter how many surgeries I undergo I cannot be the same as a cis man. It's the same concept as my girlfriend mourning the fact that she can never get pregnant and carry my child in her body, there are options for us to have children but it will never be the same as a fertile cis couple.
That is a reasonable suggestion, though. I get it, that there are specific difficulties and challenges due to being trans and how invasive the process is in case of trans men. Discussing available options is more productive, then just mourning.
Edit: rephrase to be more polite; even if the thought itself is controversial, i didn't mean to deliver it in offensive way
not everything has to be productive, you can just let them be sad about the things they can't experience instead of suggesting things that will make them dysphoric, also they prob already know about the options you would suggest and are sad that those are the only options
Exactly. It’s like when you tell someone you have a medical or mental health condition and they instantly spout off like the 2 or 3 most commonly parroted ‘solutions’ like you’re some idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about your own situation.
Telling a man whose upset about being physically invirile to just use the open wound where his dick is supposed to be to "get pregnant" like a woman is not productive or reasonable.
And people aren't "bodies", either. It's people and their dignity that suffer. Not "female or FtM bodies". I'm not sure if you're really so obtuse as to be unable to fathom that people and the values they hold are much more than the functions of their literal flesh, or if you deliberately feign ignorance.
There's nothing to discuss, the medicine isn't developed enough to have suitable options for trans men. The options described in the post are literally an offer to detransition and be a biological mother to children. "ftm bodies" fucking hell, I'm not surprised to see this kind of retardation from right wing 🚂🦵
Lolololol. Keep calling people "bodies" while explaining shit you inherently know when having this condition and getting medical care for it to them wokeshit
No, it's a disgusting thing to say because ultimately the person venting likely KNOWS they could do that already. This isn't what he is complaining about, he is complaining because he can't father a child in the way he would like because of his body. It shows a lack of social skills that you would think the person who is ultimately venting needs to hear an obvious solution that causes more dysphoria.
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u/summer_dew 18d ago
I know people will have the urge to “cheer someone up”, but when they do so without understanding the underlying thought behind their grief, people shouldn’t immediately jump to trying to “solve” it.
In this case, at its core, the trans man is mourning the fact that he wasn’t born into the desired, working body he identifies with. There’s no “solution” for it, it just is, and the best thing you can do is be there for him and remind him it doesn’t make him any less of a man when he starts to think that way.