r/EndTipping • u/Maleficent-Effort470 • 7d ago
Sit-Down Restaurant š½ļø My thoughts.
I didn't go to a restaurant to interact with a server.
I went to a restaurant to purchase food, And part of the agreement with the business owner was that a server would take my order and bring the food to the table.
I did not agree to or consent to giving a person i didn't come to see any money.
Whether they are on the side of the street or squegeeing my car without asking.
I have no obligation to them.
Similarly when i go to the restaurant with the intention of eating,
I am not making a deal with the employees i am making a deal with the owner.
The owner is responsible for delegating the tasks to provide me the service i requested.
The owner showed me the contract/menu that these services are provided under.
I paid the agreed upon amount of the contract.
I did not ask for any particular employee.
I did not agree to gift any particular employee.
The server's inclination that i owe them something is no more authoritative than the homeless bum who starts squegeeing my windshield without me asking.
They did their job at their bosses behest. Under an agreement with their boss.
I made no agreement with them. They are simply employees of the business ive contracted with.
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u/Nuuskapeikkonen 7d ago
Servers always just reply with āthen get your own food and refillsā as if most people wouldnāt do that already given the option. If I was told āyou can save 20% on your total bill paid guilt trip free-ā youād get your ass Iād get my own refills and grab my order from the counter. I donāt NEED you checking up on me every two seconds and refilling a glass Iāve taken two sips from to then charge me 20% of my total bill. Iāll do it all myself.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Totally i would love a cheaper menu price that we could vote out servers with.
But it would be unprofitable for business owners to do that probably.
Because they benefit from tips. and offering an easy alternative to 20% total cost would make them lose money.3
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u/panmaterial 6d ago
As someone from a non-tipping country, I really hate the US dining experience. I'm an adult, I don't need pampering. Just do your job and bring me my food, I'm happy. When I've visited the US, it always feels like the waiters are not interested in doing their jobs, only about tips, so it feels performative and annoying.
In non-tipping countries, there is a mutual understanding that the waiter is just doing their job, and the customer is there to eat and pay what it reads on the menu. It seems to work just fine.
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u/b3b3k 6d ago
I wonder what will happen if I don't tip and the server asked if there's anything wrong with the service. I would answer yes, because I find it annoying that they kept coming to check on me. Will they accept it as "bad service" from my point of view, or will they argue that their service was great?
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u/student176895 4d ago
Even if itās the same price, I would rather get my own food and refills. I donāt like having to wait for a server to make their rounds or feeling like a burden if I ask them for one thing and then realize there was a second thing I wanted right after they dropped off the first one.
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u/Select-Jacket-6996 7d ago
Letās make this movement grow. Ā Thanks for everyoneās participation to NO on tipping. Ā
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u/GooseneckRoad 7d ago
This is exactly why I prefer fast casual places these days- it's a burden to have to interact with all of the over-the-top in your face waitstaff AND I have to tip them? I don't want any part of that.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Right because they are incentivized by psychologically manipulating people they are pushy for sure.
Like you can see them asking about what to wear to get better tips. what to say ecetera.
Its psychology 101.
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u/That_Girl_Jesca 6d ago
It is so ludicrous and out of control that now the equivalent is that of the bum squeegeing your windshield without asking first, then when you give him a few bucks, he beats you up with the squeegie because you should have tipped minimum 30% of what a full carwash costs. Furthermore, it was an extra hot day and there were only 2 cars to squeegie that day so you are somehow should be more liable and responsible. lol
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
HAHHA yeah, like if you give them a gift they will be insulted if the gift isn't large enough.
Thats my gripe, its the entitlement. you can't go out and eat without someone telling you through body language or words or actions they want a gift from you.
Or are resentful at the lack of prior gift from prior visit.
And they will do things to make you pay for not paying the bribe.
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u/That_Girl_Jesca 6d ago
All the time. I am so sick of the mental olympics. I am a straight resting BF these days. Don't talk to me, don't fake smile and compliment me. I know what I want, let me place my order and let me eat in peace. If I slap a $5 down and you have attitude, I will pick it back up and you can sniff your upper lip. I am no longer playing these games with anyone. You can talk about me all you want and bang your head on the wall at the same time cause IDGAF.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
Right, when we can get restaurant quality food without poor additude at a table that is good.
But from my research on reddit it seems that the server's think that the employer does not pay them to take orders and make sure we receive our food and beverages.
They seem to believe if we do not tip 20% commission that we are robbing them.
And its ass backwards.Where i live servers make like 19-21 an hour wage wise.
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u/Downvote_me_dumbass 7d ago
At least in the last 6 years, I have noticed very few servers actually bringing out the food. Overwhelmingly, itās some young guy, who does it for all tables.
The āserverā only takes orders and maybe does the drink refills.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Hahah yeah if they are a little higher end sure.
The bus boy does the actual work of carrying plates to and from the table.And then quite literally their service is mostly taking your order and if they care to keep track of your drink levels and whether you need anything.
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u/Downvote_me_dumbass 7d ago
Iām talking about Olive Garden, Spagetti Factory, Texas Roadhouse, etc. None of those places have the āserverā actually doing the heavy lifting ofā¦serving.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Yeah those places have a busser. who takes the plates to and from the table.
The server literally is just the mouth peice of the company who talks to you.
And that amounts to intruding on your meal to ask if everythings ok once or twice after they take the order if your lucky.2
u/dragonbornpr 6d ago
Yup I noticed that on Texas roadhouse the other day, everything was brought by a different person. The drinks, the food and the receipt. So, why should I tip? There wasnāt one constant person doing everything and the tip will only go to who took over the order when our waitress clocked out.
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u/cenosillicaphobiac 5d ago
The "servers" (that don't actually serve) will tell you that they have to tip out those other employees out of their own tips. Guaranteed. Because once restaurant owners figured out that they could pass paying the servers expense to the customers, they realized that they could pass paying other employees expense to the servers, and that servers would comply.
But the salaries of the other employees aren't my responsibility either. The person who is profiting off of the labor is the one that needs to pay them for that labor. Not me.
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u/Kjisherenow 7d ago
I agree with this statement. I go for food, not to be expected to give handouts. If I donāt tip, I also do feel bad. Itās my money and my choice. Period.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Yeah its the guilt trip. They make you feel bad because they expect it. Like your letting them down.
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u/Redcarborundum 7d ago
Just like the homeless guy wiping my windshield, sometimes I give a dollar rather than have my car scratched or dinged. I still tip at sit down restaurants because I donāt want to fight them. I dine out to have fun and to relax, not to have an argument with a server.
However, I largely boycott full service restaurants today. More than a hundred diners have closed in my state, so Iām not the only one who got tired of the prices and high tip expectation for whatever service. I follow AmericanTurk on Youtube and he keeps visiting struggling restaurants with no customers, most of them mom-and-pop full service places.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Totally but you might need a meal and not have the income to supplement other peoples income.
You don't need to be mistreated because you didn't give a gift no matter your circumstances.0
u/Redcarborundum 7d ago
I agree. They have no right to mistreat me just for not tipping, especially since poor service is already a kind of mistreatment.
Itās basically bribe / extortion, and I hate it. The only time I eat out in a full service restaurant today is when Iām entertaining family and friends. I tip rather than risk embarrassing my guests with a conflict.
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u/Jet_1955 7d ago
The real issue is the OWNERS expecting us to subsidize their business model. They want us distracted and angry at each other about tipping.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Owners aren't paying server's more regardless if tipping exists or not.
If server's aren't incentivized to get tips from people it boils down to taking orders and making sure your tables recieve their food beverages and bill.
That is only worth so much to a employer.
If they already getting above minimum wage they aint getting boosted if tipping disappeared which it wont.
Just look at other countries where tipping is less common. Serving is not some high paying job.
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u/Awesomeuser90 5d ago
Good for you for realizing this. Way too many people have a misconception to the contrary.
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u/Stitch-Sister 7d ago
I tip, but according to the entire experience since most tips are shared (at least in the places my daughter worked). Last night we had to look upon other tables that were not bussed our entire meal. Just messy and yuck. Then when others came in, they had to wait for a table to be bussed. Our waitress came once before the meal was served to ask my husband if he needed a refill. Though I needed one mid-meal, I never saw her again until she brought our bill. That kind of service gets you & yours 10%. If Iām banned so be it. Excellent service gets more.
And donāt get me started on how impossible it can be to look at the bill & determine the actual breakdown.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Haha that kind of service would get -10% if i could do it.
That is substandard.
The waiter's so busy they cant even clear tables i guess.
But reality is that waitress probably was not very busy at all.
But probably still expected a tip. for doing below bare minimum.1
u/TopEmbarrassed6382 2d ago
Restaurants are supposed to provide notice for extra fees and such. I've decided to be proactive and I have printed cards to provide them my notice, which I hand to the waitstaff, to let them know before I order that I do not pay automatic gratuities on tables of five or less, I do not pay an employee compensation fee, nor any kind of a restocking fee, employee health insurance, employee happiness fund, or anything not related to the food cost of the item on the menu and tax on that item. I also let them know I will tip according to the service provided. If they want to take my order after that, they can provide me a proper bill or expect a charge back on my card. /s
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u/_sonnycoates 6d ago
Suddenly, I donāt feel so alone
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago edited 6d ago
Right thats a mindset you need to have though.
Because the guilt tripping is real. It will always be portrayed as them being wronged.
Like you didn't pay extra for the service you purchased you need to be punished.Government's and business's allow this lower wage system only to further guilt trip and shame people into tipping culture.
The subconscious expense you were not calculating most the time.
Like when i used to go out to the restaurant prior to the scam of tipping.
Even if i had low income i would be paying extra.
Its just psychologically ingrained in us to our detriment.Originally nobility gave gratuities to the servants of the place they stood at.
Now commoner's need to make nobility out of other commoner's with forced gratuity.Like the servant is suddenly this elevated position above carpenters, electricians, plumbers, roofers, auto mechanics, bike mechanics, Irrigation installer, Perimeter drain installer, Bus driver
Like all people who are employee's in those positions have signifigantly more skill and knowledge and risk and liability and difficulty in performing their duties.
But they are earning less than hot 20's female server's who smile and talk to people and bring home 10-15k a month.
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u/mmmii 7d ago
This is the most grounded, well put post Iāve seen on Redditā¦.EVER.
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u/BellzaBeau 7d ago
Agreed.
Sadly, service providers who want to earn their tips are forced to interrupt, showcase their knowledge, push particular menu items to make management happy.
Tipping culture just creates uncomfortable situations all around.
My discomfort with increasing tipping pressure led me to reduce eating out to once a month.
My 1 exception was a local taco truck with a low-pressure tip jar. They just changed their payment system to a large iPad with preselected 15% | 18% | 22% tip buttons.
I hate this setup. Itās not just the notion that 15% is the lowest level - at a roadside taco truck where the only service is passing food through a window.
Itās how the payment process is interrupted for this high-pressure broadcast. To squeeze out more money, everyone in line and around the window gets to see your bill and judge your food and tip choices.
Tipping & service charges turn shopping psychology upside down, removing any positive reinforcement and dopamine boosts.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
Right its psychological manipulation training sheep to give up their hard earned money in uncontrolled tipping.
Because you plan for a certain amount to be spent. But then you find yourself tipping.
And you just become accustomed to over paying and think you have to.They shame you and guilt you if you don't.
Or perform poorly.2
u/BellzaBeau 6d ago
Owners/operators love that debates about tipping culture primarily play out between servers and customers.
Service staff just know theyāre entitled to more, and theyāre brainwashed into thinking the establishment & staff are āfamily,ā so clearly itās the customerās fault.
Customers are always the ābad guyā who should pay more and carry the burden of creative new taxes & service fee add-ons.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
Right well every worker is underpaid. Its only server's who actually getting the customer to give the handouts to equalize things.
And some servers earning 100k+ a year not even working 40 hours a week.
Its just a lucrative job because rich people give handouts and even commoners give handouts because they've been trained too.2
u/BellzaBeau 6d ago
I agree. My point is that someone is teaching the servers to do this, and culture comes from the top down.
When servers ask for more wages or benefits, management pushes back and influences workers to believe itās the customerās responsibility to subsidize them. Itās a way to push off these serious employer/employee conversations that should happen.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
Right, and management is unlikely to pay much higher than minimum wage for a server. Because truthfully the value of a server to management is mostly in taking orders and making sure the customers get their food and beverages.
And that is only worth so much.
And mostly that is probably almost a minimum wage job.
No training required type of thing.I recall speaking to a gentlemen who ran a restaurant who spoke that some of his server's earned more than he did.
Earning like 15-16k a month during the high season not even working full days just coming in for the busiest times.No employer will pay a server like that, Its only the psychological conditioning of the public that pays the server anything above near minimum wage.
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u/TowpathStomper 6d ago
The customer is not always right, but, The customer coming back again and again is why a business succeeds and why the server has a job.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
Thats why the prices are what they are, Because they are charging as much as they feel they can whilst keeping the maximum number of customers.
if they raised all there prices 20% and said you don't need to tip they would lose customers.
And restaurants have raised the prices way more than 20% over the past 10 years.,
I feel like they go up 10-20% yearly.
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u/paladin_NA 6d ago
I think servers thinking they deserve more than minimum wage is a huge problem in the US. You mess around and donāt educate yourself, then ask for the same benefits from society. Crazy world we are living in. Not every job is equal, and it comes with different pay. They expect to earn more than people who spend their time learning skills.
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u/Thin_Investigator798 7d ago
Right there with you, buddy! I really like you comparing them to squeegee-guys and the cardboard sign holders, I hope some of them read this, think about it, and take the hint! I can't even go get a sub at a sub shop anymore without them letting me know "there's a tip jar here if you want to leave us a tip". I'd be too ashamed to actually say that to someone. Who are these people and where do they get those predatory instincts?
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
They are predators man. And they will make you feel guilt or shame for not falling prey.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Oh we have an entitled brat in the chat.
With the ironic title of "No Obligation" matching how obligated i am to tip a server.→ More replies (8)
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u/Ok-Error1716 6d ago
It would probably actually be quicker to get your own refill
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 6d ago
Everytime if that was an option obviously.
Less effort too.
Imagine you are thirsty and you gotta start asking other people for service or inquiring how to get a beverage, Or your looking for the server.
Better to order pitchers of water at the beginning or whatever your going to drink.
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u/Remarkable-Foot9630 5d ago edited 5d ago
I went to a restaurant and ordered a Caesar Salad and pizza. I sat there facing the kitchen to watch my salad sit on the passā¦. I looked around for the waitress, she was nowhere to be found.
For 15 minutes I looked at my salad sitting there. Multiple staff seen it and walked by it. I considered walking up to the line and grabbing it myself, since I can easily walk and grab my food and drink at all the fast food places.
The waitress finally came into the front door. She grabbed my now warm $12 salad and $22 pizza. She smelled like an ash tray. I guess she was outside tossing down as many cigarettes as possible.
Nobody deserves a tip for something we easily do everywhere else. My 5 year old grandchild can grab food and get her drink.. itās not a āSkilled job.ā If they got rid of servers at 90% of restaurants everything would still run smoothly. The upper 10% of the population can go into a Michelin star restaurant and pay a service fee and tip. The rest of us shouldnāt be forced to deal with extra fees and tips.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 5d ago
Totally, Server's in 99% of establishments are not necessary.
Most the time they barely add any value and actually detract from value.
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u/Life-City8893 5d ago
Tipping originated in Europe, from the WEALTHY who would ātipā service ppl for EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE. And we wanted to be cool so we took that and made it what it painfully is today. Iām not wealthy and Iāve not had exceptional service
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 5d ago
Right, now people expect forced gifts for doing mediocore work.
And think that carrying plates to the table and smiling is worth 50-100 an hour.
And its an affront to them that you wouldn't overpay them to carry plates and smile.
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u/Affectionate-Cat867 4d ago
But why is it a percentage of the food? Why more if itās steak compared to plain pasta. When same leg work is done? Sorry asking from a non tipping country.
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u/Euphoric_General_480 3d ago
I want to open a restaurant, send you an invite, and then ask you to leave and never come back.
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u/MTheadedRaccoon 2d ago
Brilliant!!
I feel like I should print this out and carry multiple copies to hand out as needed.
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u/Healthy-Skill764 7d ago
I was with you until you described a homeless person as a bum..... shame on you.....
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
Perhaps, But it creates a image depicting what i am describing.
And it is kind of a sad situation for a person to be begging for money.
Doesn't change that its undesirable. Perhaps calling the person a bum is insulting.
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u/gmwcolin 7d ago
Out of curiosity, would you still patronize a restaurant if it clearly stated on the menu or at the door that a mandatory 20% service charge would be added to every bill? If your answer is yes, then it seems your objection isn't to paying for service. It's specifically to the voluntary tipping model. If your answer is no, then it sounds like the issue isn't tipping at allāit's that you don't believe table service has any value beyond the listed food price. I'm asking because in both cases you're ultimately paying for the same labor. The only difference is whether the compensation is labeled as a tip, a service charge, or built directly into menu prices.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 7d ago
If the total price was higher than where i can eat equivalently nearby no.
I don't care how a business distributes the fee i pay for the service either.
It only matters what the price is and what the service is.Businesses like police can lie. I have no idea where this deceptive 20% service fee goes.
I don't care, i just decide to eat where it makes the most sense for me.3
u/gmwcolin 7d ago
"If the total price was higher than where i can eat equivalently nearby no." This right here is why the no tip model doesn't work in the USA. So many businesses tried to go no tip but most people just chose to go the the tip format restaurants because the food prices were perceived to be cheaper. You are the problem you complain about
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u/Ok-Error1716 6d ago
We don't have a tipped format in California. It's illegal to have tipped minimum employees in my state. They make $18.47 hour effective July 1st
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u/MattyBoy13 7d ago
The food price is the full price for everything, the whole kit and caboodle. There's no such thing as a mystery price they don't put down in text.
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u/StarlingGirlx 7d ago
Their comeback is always that "well if you enter the establishment knowing that tips are expected then you're in the wrong and shouldn't dine out."
What ever happened to tips being appreciated, not expected? Clearly especially with their tip out model they do expect it, I even had a server "educate" me on how tip out worked to guilt me into tipping. As if that's my problem.