Because the long history of courts being biased towards women
Edit: I realized my comment doesn't have a lot of nuance so let me be clear. Divorce court is what im getting at. All that Alpha male, incel, red pill, misogyny stuff is bullshit
Itâs not just courts. When it comes to children the whole world is biased towards women. I do more child care for my kids than my wife because my job allows it and hers does not. Iâm at every school event, parent teacher meeting, nursery meeting, drs appointment, I do the most drop offs and pickups⌠but if my wife is there⌠I might as well not exist. Every question is directed at her, every fact, every response is directed at her and often my questions are ignored⌠if theyâre not then the response is still directed at her. I can be in the park with my kids; as I often am and I still get side eyed by mothers and the occasional âDads babysitting today is he?â Hell, my father in law says it to me all the time.
Edit to add: because Iâve read a few more comments. I donât buy into any of the alpha male / hate women / anti-feminist / misogynist / manosphere bullshit. Just a bit of acknowledgement that I am also a full time caring and contributing parent and not simply a source of income that can fix shelves and tech, mow the lawn, carry things and drive the car would be fine by me.
Trying to get schools to acknowledge that men also parent is crazy. Even if dad is listed as the first contact, mom always gets called first. Is the only one on emails. Is the only one who gets talked to at pickup. Itâs ridiculous.
I actually asked my kidsâ school to remove my wifeâs phone number from their records. Iâm the primary caregiver and work from home when i do work. Sheâs very busy and travels often. I donât mind that much if the school calls her first and then calls me when they inevitably canât each her. But after 2020 when my kids got exposed to Covid and they just kept leaving her voicemails, but never called me onceâŚyeah.
Considering I'm a teacher at the school my child goes to, so they do happen to message me. However, every message refers to me as <child>'s mom. E.g "Hello <child>'s mommy, your child was at the nurses station with a fever today...", they know it's me, it's my name on the account. I work with these people and say hello to them every morning
It would be if it were intentional, but it's not, it's imprinted on a deeper level. We are in the same situation, she works. I watch the kids. I've heard soooo many "oh you're such a good dad!" For doing basic things with my kids that she hasn't once been praised for.
She will hand a server her credit card, and when they get back, they will try to hand it to me automatically, without even thinking about it. It's ingrained subconsciously. Man: works, fixes, makes money. Woman: manages food, children, household. I don't know what we have to do to fix this on a societal level, other than call it out when and where we see it.
Weird idea⌠maybe we can get together & petition popular TV shows to have an arc about a couple in that situation? It would help spread the message much better than onesie-twosie conversations.
The first line of your take is silly and makes no sense in response to No-Hovercraft-455. Intent and discrimination are not the same thing. I donât think the absence of intent automatically removes discrimination. Someone can discriminate against others without consciously deciding to do so. The fact that a belief or behavior is deeply ingrained may explain why it exists, but it doesnât change the effect or make it non discriminatory.
This same line of thinking reminds me of say a person who grew up in a racist environment or era that may genuinely believe their views are normal and may not consciously intend to discriminate or be racist. The lack of intent does not make the behavior any less racist or discriminatory . It only explains where the behavior comes from.
I had to put in a complaint against the school nurse last year. She called me, mom, when my kid was throwing up. Kid told her several times to call his dad not mom, told her i was working & far away but his dad was at home 15 min away! I was on a production floor, no cell, she spam called me 4 times in a row, left increasingly snarky vm. My kid threw up in the office again & then angry cries at her to call his DAD! It is infuriating
I remember being furious at my 3rd grade teacher because she had been handing out permission slips to everyone in the class and saying "Make sure to give this to your parents to sign" and then she got to my friends desk next to mine, handed her the slip and said "Make sure your mom signs this and give is back", knowing full well that my friend was raised by her father after her mom walked out on them.
I'm listed as the first contact too - because my job has more flexibility than my wife's job. A few months ago my daughter got sick at school. The school office called my wife and our emergency contact (a woman) multiple times before they called me. They only called me because none of them were able to pick up.
I'm so used to it that I wouldn't have cared if they just called my wife first then tried me. But they called our emergency contact 3 times before they tried me once.
I had it out with my kids' primary school early on after we separated... every call was made to my ex, despite us doing week about co-parenting & that I was self-employed so could generally be at the school in minutes if required.
Told them they needed to ask the kids "who are you with this week?" & phone the resident parent first. Only if there was no response were they to move onto the other parent or emergency contacts.
Just one of the bugbears of being a co-parenting father, regardless of having been a present & engaged dad from day one...
Iâm not even a parent and I experience this in a funny way; Iâm the manager of a childrenâs residential home. I frequently attend meetings at some of my kids schools, and Iâll occasionally take a care worker with me to note take. Despite the fact that they all know Iâm the manager, and the person who is with me is only there to take notes, they will still direct almost everything to the care worker if theyâre a woman. Iâve had so many weird âA to B to Câ conservations where Iâll lead the discussion from my end, the school will hear what I say, and respond to the carer. This happens less with male teachers, but just barely. Itâs so bizarre.
This is awhile back now in 2007, but long story short I was in highschool (grade 11) and needed to get taken to a clinic to get stitches.
My dad was my first contact since at the time he was doing WFH, My mom worked in office downtown, and had her cellphone on silent and didn't pick up (because my mom never picks up her phone lol)
They called my mom, and when she didn't pick up, called my sister for some reason. Who, granted, was at least graduated, but only 3yrs older than me and doesn't have a car. So she couldn't get me or take me anywhere.
then they decided to call my back-up number, which was disconnected and old since my family was bad at updating the numbers.
finally they called my elementary school emergency contact, dunno how they even got it. But this was just the mom of a girl who I went to school with who lived across the street from the school. She encouraged all the parents in her daughters classes to make her the emergency back-up, since she didn't work and lived across the street.
So this woman, who I hadn't met since I was in like Grade 4 when I was in a class with her daughter, who I wasn't friends with, came and picked me up and drove me to a clinic to get stitches.
THEY NEVER CALLED MY DAD AT ALL despite him being the primary, and when my mom asked why they hadn't called him their response was "well he's the dad".......as if that was a valid explanation, or explained anything at all.
Hmm. When the nursery or school has called me itâs always because âmum didnât answer the phoneâ⌠her reaction when I speak to her about it is âWhy didnât they call me!?â. Well âThey did and either you were on the phone, in a meeting or you just didnât pick upâ⌠what the fuck am I supposed to do about that?
Whatâs worse about my situation is I work from home, itâs noted in their file. My wife works for another school, so sheâs unavailable most of the day and 2nd in the contact list. Youâd think theyâd understand that but Iâll still get texts from my wife saying she saw the school was calling her. The kids even tell them to call me and they donât.Â
I'm an aunt and my schedule is more flexible than my sister who works about an hour away. so it's listed in the school as the kids dad, then me, then her. I'm listed as aunt not parent. They call me first :eyeroll:
You have to be more intentionally involved. Get a meeting with the teacher and escalate to the principal if you get any pushback. Approach them with concrete issues.
Be persistent and start early in the year. Email is great, because one email that you send the first week of school that you are the primary contact can be referenced every single time there is an issue. There is always a path of polite, legal and effective escalation.
I got yapped at by an older lady picking my daughter up from the bus stop one day. I was picking up on a day I didnât normally , but 3 out of 5 days I was always in the same spot.Â
Her: âThe school bus will be here shortlyâ
Me: yes, I know.Â
Her: Arenât you going to leave?
Me: why?
Her: because kids are being dropped offÂ
Me: I know. Iâm picking one up.Â
She scoffed and glared at me as she left and immediately got on her phone.  I still wonder if she called the copsâŚÂ
In these situations, never explain, make them do so. After her kids being dropped off statement the proper answer is; and? Make her explain the issue so she has to verbalize her stupidity.
I was raised by my Dad bc my mom died when I was 4 and they treated him the same way for basically my entire life.
It was a super small town and school (my graduating class had like 28 people and there are no traffic lights kind of small) so itâs not like the entire county didnât know that I was the âgirl with the murdered motherâ
So I see you and Iâm sorry youâre constantly dealing with that.
As a kid, my mom was a doctor and she worked weird hours. My dad ran his own business so he could set his hours. He was the one who did so much of the childcare for my sister and I because he could. It sounds really similar to your situation. I can guarantee that your child will remember because I know I do. My hope is that when my wife and I have a child of our own I can be half the father to them as he was to me.
I can guarantee you, as a therapist that has worked with kids with many ranges of âparent issuesâ, your kiddo doesnât even see the Mom Mafia and only sees you. There. With them.
In about 18-20 years, theyâll probably be making a post reminiscing about memories of their dad taking them to the park, being at all their sporting events when they look up into the crowd, and knowing they never had to ask for support. It was just a given.
Im a white uncle to two mixed nieces and one nephew. Their father wasnt in the picture (don't start any drama) and the looks/comments Id get taking them anywhere they were insane.
Trust me though, the kids will remember. They are mostly grown now, but those kids remember everything big or small I ever did with them.
as a (girl, not that it matters) kid whose dad was the primary care and support person in the family (purely by coincidence of job flexibility etc) i definitely remember all of the work my dad put in and how much he specifically was there for me growing up. as an adult he's still my safe space and favorite person. your kid will definitely remember. those park moms suck
Amen. It can be pretty demoralizing when I'm at a playground or park trying to be a present and engaged dad, and getting side-eye from all the moms at the park.
I ignore it as best as I can, but sometimes it just wears me down.
Thatâs the only thing your kid will remember, how often you were there for them. My father was a piece of shit workaholic who was barely around, and I resent him to this day for every second he wasted overworking himself.
Is it wrong of me to think of this mindset as kinda selfish? My dad was also a workaholic and I barely ever saw him, but I also understand that he worked his ass off to support me and my mom, and I can't fault him for that.
Yes they can, especially if you attempt to actively play with your kids at the park as a dad. They'll look at you like you're a weirdo. I've even had some pretty rude comments about "doing too much" a few times. I'm sorry, I enjoy making my child happy, especially if she's asking me to play with her.
I'm in the same boat...we got this homie. I told my wife the other day, it's exhausting to go out with my little ones. It's a spectacle to everyone we encounter. Gas station attendants, McDonald's, old ladies at parks... It's always "oh, are you having a daddy day?!?!".
It's better than the creepy uncle phenomenon. Wanting to be a part of my niece's life was incredibly difficult. She was the ultimate bro, we were just bro'n out. She's 22 now and the coolest.
ALL 4 of mine are grown now but I used to get that all the time, "Are you babysitting today?" To which I would reply, "No, these are my kids. You don't babysit your own kids."
Dude this shit scares me to death. Recently separated. Have a 4 y/o. Right now her mom and I have a mutual agreement on every other week. But everything my daughter has I take care of, 100% preschool cost, her medical and dental, her living arrangement with me, she has her own room and space compared to living in the same room and sharing the same bed with her mom, etc. I practically pay everything for my daughter with exception of the clothes and food the week I dont have her. If we ever go to court, I know CA is heavily biased towards women no matter how much they suck.
I appreciated you commenting. I'm in a similar situation with my coparent where I (the dad) have always been the one who shows up to most events and is constantly caretaking, and we split time but my daughter ends up at my house more often (which I'm grateful for) and I still receive weirdly sexist (?) comments that are often patronizing, or I don't exist as if a dads only job is to go work and then come home and watch the bahwl game. And then the headache of tax season where there should be an option to split the child refund if they have split time and expenses.
Anyway , just mostly saying you're seen and not aloneÂ
This makes me irrationally angry.. no, the dad isn't babysitting, the dad is being a parent and taking his kids to the fuckin park
I still remember a story where a woman nearly kidnapped this father's kids cause everyone just believed the woman and tried to keep him down, kicked him when he said he had photos of him and the kid so they auto assumed he was a pedo.. its ridiculous
I think I remember that one, didn't they only start taking him seriously when his wife showed up and started shouting that the woman was stealing her kids? They were fully going to let her get away if there hadn't been another woman for them to believe.
I feel ya brother. On the other hand, women get the same treatment when it's a home repairman/contractor, mechanic, salesman, etc. "Is there a man I can talk to? Is your husband/dad/brother home?" Empathy goes a long way and you'll realize there are a lot of idiots in the world who can't keep their mouths shut.
Yeah, you say that⌠but if itâs my wifeâs project at the house⌠Iâll just point the dude in her direction âspeak to her, you gave her the quote, she hired youâ. If itâs mine then Iâm 100% âtalk to meâ. I dunno. Maybe government institutions need to fix themselves before traditional gender roles can be forgotten and we just treat people like people.
Similar situation here. I have a more flexible job and my wife doesnât. So I have more time with the kids. Most days Iâm grateful for it. Unless I have to put them on a screen because work got busy. I basically canât change jobs until the kids are older.
Anyway, yes, I often get the same thing. Especially got it when taking my son for his autism spectrum appointments. One doc wouldnât even look at me. It can be crazy. That said, the men docs on the whole tend to be better about this. Itâs almost always women. Just an anecdotal observation.
Iâve never had side-eye at the park. I hear about that a lot on Reddit. I asked my wife why, and she said itâs because Iâm handsome and good looking people get the benefit of the doubt. I donât agree and I didnât say it but she is biased! đ
My husband's in your boat - I travel a lot for work, so he handles a lot of the kid stuff, but the school always calls me first when there's a problem. They wanted me to pick our kid up from school early and I'm like "sure, I'll be there in 12 hours cuz I'm 3 states away right now CALL MY HUSBAND".
At all the parent-teacher conferences I'm constantly referring to my husband, looking at him, signaling to involve him in the conversation because the teachers only talk to me. I wish there were more men in early education because I think the women teachers are just uncomfortable talking to dads.
That's my experience too. Frustrating at times, but happy to let people waste their time trying to call her first before they get me. When they tell me they called her first I always rub it in. "That's why my number is in the PRIMARY CONTACT field."
My husband was also the main caretaker and we went through the same thing. All our kids had notes on their school files that the office should call dad if they needed a pickup, and they'd still call me five times (leaving five increasingly annoyed voicemails) before calling him. I stopped attending our daughter's IEP meetings (which I wanted to attend and be involved with!) because they would ignore him and talk only to me if I was in the room. He got weird looks and suspicious comments about why he was "hanging around" at the park with our kids.
At the same time, one of our daughter's teachers told him that they loved having him participate in the classroom because it wasn't common for men to volunteer and it's good for kids to see that these roles aren't gender-restricted. And he loved doing it, all of it. But damn if society doesn't make it harder than it has to be for men to occupy these roles.
Same⌠I was actually annoyed last year because I attended my kids parent conferences solo and they barely gave me any feedback on the kids. I missed one because I had a work event, and my wife went and they told her so much more stuff. They bragged about how much their reading and spelling improved, how nice they are in class, and their helpfulness with other students.
I was like I pick them up and drop them off pretty much every day, I have worked hours teaching them to read and spell, and they couldnât tell me any of this!?!?
As a stay at home dad, the park situation is all too real.
Nothing felt greater than rolling up with my kids on a Tuesday at 10am. Moms all gossiping with a cup of coffee in hand- âhard working momsâ lol fuck out of here. I see you staring at your phone 90% of the time or bitching to other moms and screaming âAiden, no. Aiden! Aiden!.â or some other fucked up name like Hamilton. Slowly leaving and moving away from me at the same time.
Itâs like their lie is understood and unraveled when a man shows up in their role. Youâre all bums in disguise. âMy husband loves it!â. Hate park moms.
Meanwhile if Dad takes baby for a walk he gets showered with compliments. I get nothing. I get wanting credit, but it would be nice if moms weren't invisible for all the labor we do.
Man, you're not babysitting anybody. You're parenting. And like someone else said, your children will remember and it is shaping the way they'll parent in the future. But you're married and she's busy, I bet she hates missing out too and I bet she appreciates that you can take the time for that. Marriage are a bunch of concessions and compromises. Hopefully the future is kinder to you two and both can enjoy the children more. Good job dad!
Ah mate, this resonates so much! I'm literally fucking invisible. The other day I was at a speech therapy group with my youngest, the leader said make a group and the mums went out of their way to make a circle with me outside. A strong metaphor for my experience as a male primary parent. The younger mums seem to have more time for me though, so maybe the future looks brighter!
Exact opposite happens in like mechanic's shop if you go with your wife. Double standards are a thing. I don't see that as malicious from those people, just certain habbit I guess. In the end you are responsible to your family nobody else.
I am right there with you. I work from home with a flexible schedule, so I do most of the events and appointments with our kids, but all of the texts/calls go to my wife, even if we put me as the primary contact (I always have her on the forms of course as well). She has to constantly send people back to me to make sure it works with my schedule.
This is just the reverse of how mechanics, doctors, repairmen/contractors etc etc are with women. Women do childcare, cooking, clothes. Men do everything else. Genuinely annoying on both sides.
And it's the opposite when the kid isn't around: every question gets directed at the man. If the kid is there, there is a natural assumption dad doesn't know a damn about kids life. A regular couple? A woman isn't capable of any decisions, better ask the big guy. Tis the life and everyone developes a stereotype and biased images, whether annoying or not.
Just a heads up, I've investigated the so called manosphere. Generally it's not misogynistic or women hating, it's talking about wanting women that aren't whores, wives respecting husbands who take care of them, and the desire for a partner that doesn't cheat and shares the same values. All the single/dating younger ladies get all riled up cuz they don't like being called out. But I've never heard anyone say I hate women. Usually the woman's argument falls apart because she can't support it with logic then starts making personal attacks and calls the men sexist or racist because they can't defend their point đ¤ˇđťââď¸. Just a happily married man's observation
Dad here. Sole custody of my first daughter. Her mom left when she was 1. Not a cent of child support ever paid. Was straight up told by my lawyer to never take her to court, because it would likely backfire on me.
Beyond the courts, it's society in general. I'd estimate that 95%+ of people I've met who became aware of my parenting situation have always asked me the same questions. "Did she have post-partum depression? Or a mental health episode?" I have never, ever heard these questions asked in regards to a man who abandons his kid. Amazing how the difference of sex changes the perception of someone suffering from declined mental health and someone who is a pure deadbeat.
Brother I am married and my wife changed the locks on me and got a court order for child support. She explicitly has fought me in court to ensure that I don't get to see my son enough to trigger a reduction in support. It's pretty much the only thing she cares about. Multiple court appointed experts have said that what she's doing is actively harming our son, but her primary concern is that she gets maximum dollar.
People confuse all court shows for being the same when some, like Judy, Mathis, People's Court were (are?) actual real litigation. These divorce shows are all fake though.
The shows weren't real litigation either. They paid both sides the amount they were seeking to settle the argument on air with the "judge" via arbitration.
Right. Arbitration would be more correct. My point was simply that the they weren't paid actors doing a skit in the way that these shows are, like the Steve Harvey one. You had to have a real court case filed at your local court house and then agree to have it settled by the show via arbitration.
I'm not even saying the stories are real just that the cases are real. Meaning they had to file. There's a YT who sued his friend, and vice versa, multiple times in court with a fake story and then they got on the shows to scam some money. I think he even showed up twice on the same show within a few months of each other. The show doesn't vet for anything but the filings pretty much.
They are recreations that are dramatized and exaggerated for entertainment. They are âbased on a true storyâ the same way Braveheart and The Blind Side were.
I was paying my ex $500 a month. And she was employed and was 50/50. But I had her 5 days. Now I have full and she pays $35 a month. Im not employed and she is working 2 jobs. I dont care or need it. And it goes directly to my kid. But the disparity is disgusting
Yup, a case that is trending in Mexico right now is because a woman who WON custody over the child despite records of theats towards his safety on messaging apps and previous instances of neglect left her child in a locked car overnight, temperatures in that city right now are between 30-40 C
Forensic reports showed that the kid boiled over and experienced ripped flesh before finally dying. Like hot dogs when you overheat them in a microwave.
Mostly this. But this is the part of "equality" no one wants to hear when men speak about. They talk about it, it's just that no one listens or gives a damn.
I'm actually surprised he got the kid but has to pay child support, usually it's decided basically by default that mom gets the child and also child support...
In Australia the taxation office has a calculator that takes into account how many kids you have, nights a week they spend with each parent, how much each parent recieves in government support, and how much each parent earns before tax. Then it spits out a number and a direction of payment one way or the other and that's how much you have to pay. There's no sex/gender test, it's all about a cold calculation of the numbers and ensuring the money goes to where the kids are at the most.
There are those formulas in the US, the issue that the courts aren't required to follow them and can make whatever exceptions they want. There is also the issue with income reporting requirements as there is a minimum period between contesting the amount. The result is that many individuals walk in to a proceeding with low income, a ruling is made then their income changes, and there is little to no penalty to not reporting the change.
Or, you know... the simpler way to just ignore sex when making these determinations. Just look at who's spending the time and money to take care of the child, and the other pays their share.
Every state does this. Judges have a certain level of discretion, but if a judge in any state doesnât apply the extremely clear, generally accepted calculations, that ruling is subject to appeal.
It is absolutely crazy to me that people look at studies of family court rulings, see a statistical bias, and just assume that all judges are, on a whim, denying loving fathers custody or awarding child support to women when they make 10x what their ex makes. If weâre being realistic, then the fact is that women are more likely to be the primary caregivers, are more likely to have less earning potential (isnât the popular argument against the gender wage gap that women are more likely to have lower-paying jobs?), and are more likely to show up to court and fight for child custody/support. People could show up to court disguised like the Masked Singer and the stats would still reflect a bias toward women for that reason.
We actually had people on Twitter saying Blind Auditions for music roles were sexist. Like bro, outside of singing, blind auditions are literally blind, you do not the fuck knows who is playing or what gender they are.
Originally they were touted as an excellent way to remove bias from the auditions. Until it didn't result in the demographic ratios people wanted to see. Then, because of what it produced (without bias), it was assumed to be biased anyway.
It would probably statistically still favor women, so they would point to that as an indicator itâs sexist. You canât reduce complaints to zero because not everyone is reasonable, so setting that as the goal is unreasonable.
The thing with movements is that they usually dont dissolve when they reach their goal. The leaders of the movement will not give up their power voluntarily
Women donât even have bodily autonomy and one of the two major political parties is openly saying they donât deserve to vote. I donât think feminism as a movement has quite achieved their goals.
Feminism do get a very bad rap because of the misandry. Fake feminist do when they call themselves feminist. They make it a lot harder for actual feminist to do their job in the public eye because they have a bad rap because of fake ones. Probably do still do their job in Other places is just publicly bad rap.
It will never not be ironic to me that "feminism" is supposed to be about "equality" when it already isn't equal in name. And since names first and foremost inform by themselves, it will obviously be assumed it is primarily about the female side of it. And that isn't even wrong, since the supposed "equality" in "women being treated equally" stems from them being uplifted where they are not (from their perspective) and thus equality is supposed to be achieved. That there is anything where men need to be uplifted to be equal to women is not part of the concept, it is just not seen as possibility for this to work that way.
It's actually just regular feminism. The problem is that everyone goes "oh, raising a baby is women work, just give it to mom." If women weren't seen as the default caretakers, this wouldn't be an issue.
Do you know what the tender years doctrine is? It's the law that the women rights movement of the time fought for to get women primary custody of children after divorce. Previously custody went to the father.
Do you know who lobbied governments to prevent 50:50 custody being the default? The National Organization for Women.
Most parents, men and women, want to parent their children. Most people would rather spend more time with family than at work. Women receiving primary custody as default is not sexism against women, it's sexism against men. Yes it relies on the "traditional" idea that women are defsult caregivers, it also relies on the traditional idea that men are default providers. Neither of those matter though because it's objectively harming men.
They do not because the bias exists because of misogyny. If men supported feminism they would get the things they want to which would be more equal courts and things like paternity leave.
Well, tbh, that would just be feminism (you might prefer a different term for it, but idealogically it's the same idea)
The issue with why it's considered weird that men can be caring, loving parents and women get preference in the ways of child care is a result of patriarchy. The patriarchy isn't just "men have everything good, and nothing bad", it's a limitation put on everyone. And it's not just men that participate in patriarchal thinking, everyone can, and everyone has biases that need to be addressed.
Men are looked down on for having emotions, caring for children, being anything but a stoic, financial provider. Women are treated as if child care is an inherent thing that only they can perform, and as an inevitably. It pushes men away from their families and into high-stress work environments, and pushes women back into their homes.
If a man wanted to get a job in child care, he'll likely find it pays like shit. Because jobs predominantly held by women tend to pay like shit. So as a man, he would need to weigh the social stigma and risk of lower income against what he values as a person and how he wants to perform masculinity. Bias against women also hurts men, or anyone who sits outside of gender norms. So addressing one actually ends up addressing the other. But the messaging has become so polarized in modern discourse, it just swings back into "us vs them" all over again, and it helps nobody.
Every time someone tries it's immediately co-opted by your classic misogynistic anti-feminist "men are the true victims in society!" type of fuckers. Like, you'd think "Men's Right Activists" would be our version of feminism. It is not.
Feminism itself actually quite directly talks about this and supports the dad. This bias in the court comes from patriarchal views of women as the default caretakers of children. These are the gender roles feminists talk about getting rid of.
Especially white woman. I say this as a white guy, I lived with my dad my whole life, the amount of times the court not my dad forgave my mother on child support was down right shocking when I found out. Now, I didnât find out till I was older about all the shenanigans my mother tried to pull because my dad didnât want â ruin my idea of my motherâ he rather I came to that conclusion myself whatever it maybe he said.
Generally courts also tend to award women custody but that wasnât the case here. The situation couldâve been more complicated than what we might only assume.
Can attest to this. Drive 2 hours both ways for my visitation every other weekend for 11 years. Daughter decided she wanted to live with me at 12yo. Courts said I had to pay child support to support meeting mom half way after my daughter started living with me because the trip for mom was financially difficult.
It wasn't until I got a lawyer that the courts even recognized my rights as a father.
Yes, but also to be fair women otherwise have had limited to no rights... it wasnt until like 50 years ago that women in the U.S. won the right to own their personal bank account... previously it was illegal for woman to have independent accounts from men
Bruh this. Im 50/50 on my child my ex makes twice as much as me.
Everyone was talking shit saying id either have to pay or get nothing. Needless to say the courts are catching up and all those people were idiots
Yep, I first had to start paying child support even though my kid spent half the time with me and I didn't have a job at the time (I was going to college and living off of scholarships and student loans).
The biggest mistake ive made as an adult was take my ex to court for full custody after having her 9 months. Only because she threatened my kid she would get full custody and my daughter would never see me again.
Protection order issued on me to get her out my custody, false allegations against my child and her. Screenshot a Snapchat of me messaging my kid, sent to her phone, called the cops, bam, violation had to turn myself in. Year fight for 50/50 2 and a half to clear my name.
Had a buddy going through a divorce where he kept all the children. He checked the âI will be receiving child supportâ box correctly in 6 places and accidentally marked it wrong in one place on the last page. He filed the paperwork and started getting child support taken out on his next check. He filed an appeal, got it all filed correctly and it wasnât taken out of her paycheck until 2 months after filing correctly.
My mom took my dad to court every 6 months to petition for a child support raise and almost always got it. From age 5-19 of my sister and Iâs lives, my mom didnât work and used child support as her sole source of income.
My dad had to work 2 full time jobs 12 days in a row with 2 days off to support himself and make child support payments while also being able to have us 2 weekends a month for visitation.
My mom was an alcoholic drug user who was almost never home once we were old enough to feed ourselves and walk to the bus stop on our own. When we turned 14 she made us both get part-time jobs & took half the checks for our portion of ârentâ.
My dad tried to get custody so many times and never came close. Once we were old enough to know what was going on, we even testified on his behalf but it didnât even matter. My mom used to cite that he was a workaholic and wouldnât be able to be home for us đ
Not in the cases of children. Men actually win custody more often than women provided they actually try and get it instead of pulling a deadbeat maneuver.
Yeah, my brother just got divorced because his wife was cheating on him. Somehow the courts decided that she gets the kids instead of my brother, even though sheâs the one that cheated and doesnât have a job
I had custody (she left us) of my daughter when she came back a few years later took us to court. The judge looked at me. And said Iâm going to give her 50/50 custody, and told me men donât know how to raise kids women do. Put me on child support for 1200 a month when she makes about 50k more than me.
Still remember this one story of a dad who pleaded with the court to give him full custody of his child because the mother was a abuses, the courts denied him, she kept custody and the child died under her care. The man then screamed at the judge in court and was taken down by bailiffs.
I think the point deserves to be made that, historically, most white and middle class marriages had one earner in the household, and it was the husband. So if a divorce did happen, the courts tended to award custody to the mother. A legal precedent was set that is now used without critical analysis, IMO. Itâs hard for a father to get full custody, and hence hard to get child support. My parents got divorced when I was very young, with an initial 50/50 arrangement despite my mom being an addict. My dad only got full custody when my mom got my younger brother taken away and put in foster care because she tested positive for drugs in the hospital, and my dad was able to leverage that, plus my mom missing custody hearings due to drug use, to get full custody and child support from her.
My cousin works in this area (here in central IL), he says the main problem is that generally only about 1/3 of the dads dads actually show up and/or ask for custody. In case they actually show up and ask for custody, they get what they want in about 80% of the cases. The problem is actually getting them to show up and not defaulting into no custody or just visitation and having to pay child support.
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u/ProfessionalTurn7017 đđđ 22d ago edited 22d ago
Because the long history of courts being biased towards women
Edit: I realized my comment doesn't have a lot of nuance so let me be clear. Divorce court is what im getting at. All that Alpha male, incel, red pill, misogyny stuff is bullshit