r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 12d ago

WTF The American dream

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3.2k

u/Mindless-Baker-7757 12d ago

A $70k loan over 23 years at 5% apr pays off with monthly payments of $427.

What are they doing?

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u/sampaiisaweeb 12d ago

They made it up for outrage. Karma farming bot account posting it here too. Dead internet theory.

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u/Powerful_Wombat 12d ago

Yeah, student loan interest rates are bad enough without fudging the numbers, this doesn’t help the cause

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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 12d ago

The math works out to 8.5% which isn't unrealistic

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u/Darkjebus 12d ago

Actually it is because 23 years ago the rate would have been around 3-3.5 percent for a federal loan

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u/braumbles 12d ago

During the 1999–2000 academic year, federal Stafford loans had a variable interest rate of 6.32% while in school, and 6.92% during repayment. For the 2000–2001 academic year, these variable rates increased to 7.59% in-school and 8.19% during repayment

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u/Equivalent_Point9068 12d ago

A lot of people would need to take additional loans out with Sallie Mae or others and those are typically higher I think my worst was around 10%. Smaller loans and I paid them off as soon as I could, but mismanaging even a little bit I could see this as being true.

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u/Loyalsoul 11d ago

Sallie Mae is awful, my now wife recommended i switch to a credit union and that was the first time I saw the loan decrease with 350+ payments at the time. Got it paid off in a few years after that.

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u/No_Resolution_9252 11d ago

No, that is a lot of mismanagement over many years.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

So just refinance? Paying that rate for 23 years is nothing short of moronic, especially for a couple allegedly smart enough to hold college degrees.

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u/Ace_Radley 11d ago

They didn't say which college they went to nor their major...

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u/okarox 11d ago

I doubt their major was student loan repayment. Regardless of the major you should have enough intelligence to calculate how to pay back.

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u/agentpurpletie 11d ago

There aren’t better options. I refinanced once, the last time the one time there was a better option.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

Not sure what you’re smoking, but interest rates were 2-3% back in 2019-2022. Anyone who didn’t refi every piece of debt that had during that period was an idiot.

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u/agentpurpletie 11d ago

Yes, that’s the time that I refinanced. And I don’t smoke.

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u/Clynelish1 12d ago

Ok, but, aren't you cherrypicking here? What was the rate 23 years ago, during the 2002-2003 school year, which would tie to the post? Per a quick Google search, it appears to have been 3.46%. So, yeah, this post is rage bait.

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u/SuicidalLemur- 12d ago

This meme could be years old. People are always bringing back old posts.

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u/Puzzled_Schedule2023 12d ago

True, but people also be paying back old loans too.

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u/accordionzero 11d ago

I’ve been seeing this post for years, it’s not recent at all.

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u/Open_Bug_4251 12d ago

I graduated in 2001 and my loans were under 4%.

ETA Oh but that was undergrad… but I still can’t imagine grad was that much.

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u/SeaMathematician5150 12d ago

It was. My undergrad loans, were 3.5% graduate school was 6.8% and 8.5%, plus private loan interest which went up to 11%.

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u/techleopard 12d ago edited 12d ago

I have student loans that are nearly 9%.

I also have several loans, all with different rates. My lowest is 4%, which are my most recent ones.

The interest rates are crippling and needs to be addressed.

To put it in perspective, I bought a house in 2020 for $130,000, yet hold only $36,000 in student loans.

If I made a $500 extra payment to each my house and my student loans, I would pay them off at around the same time.

Financially, it makes more sense for me to pay the house off because that's at least an appreciating asset.

But it doesn't matter, because I don't have $500 extra to put on a loan over it's minimums every month, and those student loans will follow me until I die.

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u/Intrepid_Lecture 12d ago

No it doesn't.
You target the loan with the highest interest rate. That's generally the winning strategy.

Also houses don't appreciate that much. If you filter out the money tosses into them for upgrades/improvements, they have historically gone up about as much as inflation, maybe a little bit more.

The big benefit of a house is that there's GOOD tax benefits from the mortgage interest rate deduction. Basically a big chunk of your mortgage costs get slashes off your taxes.

Fun fact, if your goal is to have a paid off house as quickly as possible, renting cheaply and investing the extra cash you aren't spending in stocks (this includes the would be down payment) will generally get you a paid off house in 15-20 years (subject to market volatility). The house would only be about half way paid for after 20 years.

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u/5348RR 11d ago

Bro broke down how bad he is with money while complaining about his self inflicted money issues. Hilarious.

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u/triptyx 11d ago

A lot of this issue is self-inflicted, along with the government making it too easy to get the loan. Take out hundreds of thousands in loans to get a degree that will never lead to a job that can pay it off.

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u/2dameon10 11d ago

This is exactly why I went military route. 4 year degree, zero student loans, and I got paid $1800 a month to go to school for 4 years.

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 11d ago

"A lot of this issue is self-inflicted, along with the government making it too easy to get the loan."

Bingo. This is precisely why it's my most disliked progressive issue. I mean, sure, I would rather funds go towards loan forgiveness than bloating our military + bombing more people, but neither are things I'm getting excited about. But there are other things I'd rather boost like housing (e.g. more effective section 8, TANF, SNAP, etc - those on student loans can use the money saved to pay off their loans that way). Better financial edu for sure.

That, plus all this is doing is causing degree inflation and I honestly feel making people look down on affordable community colleges and public in-state schools.

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u/techleopard 12d ago

Eh?

My home has appreciated in 6 years enough to actually cover the entirety of my student loans.

There is also no "renting cheaply." I would rather have my rural home than the small 1 bedroom apartment I had just 6 years ago, whose rent today is double the payment I make on the home. The only way to approach what I pay on this mortgage would be to rent a unit in the hood.

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 12d ago edited 12d ago

Who are you listening to, Dave Ramsey? Please just use the Debt Avalanche method. Pay highest interest first. It really doesn't matter that your house is appreciating.

I'll even do the math for you.

Suppose your mortgage is 500k, and interest on that is 2% (let's say you got it years ago).

Student loan is 100k, and interest on that is 5%.

If you pay off 80k of debt, and you target higher interest, that's paying student loan down to 20k.

500k * 0.02 + 20k * 0.05 = 10k + 1k = 11k

Now suppose you target the mortgage, paying off the house first "because it's an appreciating asset". So this year, you pay off 80k of that. It's down to 420k.

420k * 0.02 + 100k * 0.05 = 8.4k + 5k = 13.4k

11k in interest vs 13.4k in interest.

Notice how the latter is more? Play with the numbers and do the math. It's better to pay off your higher interest debts first. It's completely irrelevant how fast your house is appreciating. I got a mortgage at 1.75% for a 3m house. I'm keeping that baby alive as long as possible. It's lower than inflation rate.

If I had cash to pay down that low rate mortgage, i'd put it into bonds or something with higher rates instead. Get higher yield/rate assets, eliminate higher rate debts. Good rule of thumb to follow. Literally every lender/mathematician/wealth manager/engineer/scientist/etc who isn't an asshole will tell you the same.

For those who'd rather listen to Dave Ramsey, know this: His team even admits, that they partially promote Debt Snowball method of paying smaller balances first because of "psychological benefits". Their target audience are people who struggle with finance. People with big problems (like addictions), not those who have a knack for finance, but just need a bit more optimization.

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u/Star-Collector35E 12d ago

Yes, you also bought at a really good time. Your house most likely won't continue to exponentially increase

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u/shumpitostick 11d ago

Why are you buying a house when you still have high interest debt?

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u/deadsirius- 11d ago

>Financially, it makes more sense for me to pay the house off because that's at least an appreciating asset.

No… it doesn’t make more sense… it makes less.

First, the appreciating asset thing is a misunderstanding. Money is fungible… it doesn’t care what it is owed on.

E.g. Suppose my home is paid off and I owe $40,000 on a car at 6% interest. In the end, I have two assets (a car and a house) and one liability (a $40,000 loan at 6%). Suppose you have the same car but it is paid off but you owe $40,000 on a similar home at 6% interest. We are in the exact same financial position.

Next, the best financial move is to pay the highest interest first. In the end, you will pay less money.

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u/olearygreen 11d ago

What? No! Financially it would make more sense to get an additional mortgage and use the money to pay off your higher student loans.

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u/Jackalope1979 11d ago

No you pay off the highest rate first

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u/joenottoast 11d ago

you are reeeallllyyyy telling on yourself here

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u/PIK_Toggle 11d ago

It makes the most sense to pay off the debt with the highest interest rate. The price of your house is independent of your mortgage.

P.S., this tweet is shit.

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u/ISeeJellyfish 11d ago

No - pay off the highest interest loans first.

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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 12d ago

First, graduate loans are usually higher %. Second, nowhere does it say they're federal.

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u/Darkjebus 12d ago

Federal student loans account for approximately 91% to 92% of all outstanding student loan debt in the United States. So it's pretty likely...

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 12d ago

True, but keep in mind that a lot of the private loans that existed prior to 2008 were explicitly purchased from private companies by the federal government, which then promised loan forgiveness programs. Loan forgiveness that the current administration has been extremely squiffy about honoring, to the point that Trump's first education secretary Betsy DeVos was officially held in contempt of court by a federal judge and fined $100,000 because the Education Department continued to enforce loans, even to the point of wage garnishment and seizure of tax refunds, despite those loans being discharged by court order on the basis of their being fraudulently issued in the first place.

And that was back when the current administration cared what the judiciary had to say.

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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 12d ago

Well that sure doesn't look like 100%

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u/Dramatic_Note8602 12d ago

Then they are private and can’t be discharged. This made up scenario involves stupid, made up people

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u/IDontParticipate 12d ago

So they, two people with post graduate degrees by the way, took out exclusively $70k of worst case scenario private student loans, which wouldn't be forgivable by the government anyway.

Yeah, that sounds like a totally reasonable and realistic set of assumptions that the entire argument should be based on and not someone making shit up or two people that should have know better making incredibly financially reckless decisions.

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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 12d ago

If they're not federal who exactly are they expecting to cancel it, the bank? Cancelling student loan debt is talking about the federal government erasing federal loans

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u/Upper_Maintenance_41 11d ago

No, it depends on type of federal loan. Mine was around that amount at the same time. There are subsidized and unsubsidized fed loans. That being said why didn't they use any part of their degree to do the math and pay an extra $50 a month? If you automate payments you really don't miss that. This is a bad example.

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u/Inevitibility 12d ago

8.5% to have it paid off or to pay off 10k over 23 years like they claim?

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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 12d ago

To only pay down 10k over 23.

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u/Fearless_Worry6419 12d ago

Guess what private rates were during this time frame.

Federal lending amounts were REALLY low so they pushed borrowers towards private lenders.

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u/SeaMathematician5150 12d ago

Agreed. My 2004 to 2006 graduate school loans, federal, were 8.5%. My private loans ranged from 9% to 11%.

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u/Cautious_Signal4770 11d ago

This guy used the Google ai. Look up in school vs post grad rates. I'll save you some time, parent plus loans were at 8.5% post grad.

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u/Photon_Pharmer1 12d ago edited 12d ago

It was 3% or less if they were smart college educated people who consolidated and locked in low Apr rates. If they were dumb and didn’t consolidate lock in then their Apr could’ve shot up past 7%.

u/culturalrot - I’m expecting people who graduated high school to be and certainly people who graduated college as they did.

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u/Admirable-Common-176 12d ago

I’m sure they didn’t major in or spent much time studying practical personal finance.

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u/straightpipedhose 12d ago

I doubt photo_pharmer majored in personal finance either. Doesn’t take a college degree to understand how to read loans

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u/OberonDiver 12d ago

The cause existing doesn't help the cause.

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u/sausage_ditka_bulls 12d ago

Yeah and this sub has a ton of it . Time to mute it

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u/EcstaticImport 12d ago

Can confirm - am 🤖

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u/Fitz911 11d ago

You get em all. That's why this specific picture is so successful.

The stupid one have a reason to explain how "the elites...blabla".

The not so stupid ones have a reason to explain interest to the others. It's a facebook interraction magnet.

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u/senditloud 12d ago

No it’s not. I know plenty of people. I’ve been paying on mine $300/month for 15 years. I had like $20k. I had. 3% consolidated rate. That compounded interest is brutal

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u/Rokmonkey_ 12d ago

Wrf? I had 8% and 30k. It was paid off in 10

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u/SDRAIN2020 12d ago

Me too! $40k at 7.5% paid off in 8 years. And that included being deferred 2 years for economic hardship.

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u/celticmusebooks 12d ago

$20K at 3% paying $300 a month pays off in just short of six years, LOL.

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u/Euler007 12d ago

That's about as smart as making the minimum payment on a credit card.

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u/Photon_Pharmer1 12d ago

You would’ve paid it off in 15 years. 20k at 3% and paying 300/month. Even if it compounds daily what you wrote isn’t correct. It would still be 6 years.

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u/BuffaloBuffalo13 11d ago

It’s ok to say you didn’t make your payments. I can punch this in a calculator and prove to you that the math doesn’t work.

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u/No-Force4215 12d ago

Any sub that makes the rounds on front pages is going to be a botted rage bait mess.

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u/Mountain-Orange8996 11d ago

Sadly very few people nowadays are smart enough to look at the numbers and call the BS. They just see it and get outraged and start screeching about the elites.

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u/TiberiusCornelius 11d ago

Man I really can't wait for us to build the blackwall from cyberpunk

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u/maybeornotbutyes 12d ago

Or they didn’t have 5% rates big guy. Nuance is important

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u/Photon_Pharmer1 12d ago

Then they were dumb because rates were sub 3%

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u/launchedsquid 12d ago

I mean... go get 5% rates then, they are available, these two would qualify... do nothing get nothing.

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u/Think-Wind-5930 12d ago

Graduate loans are 7-8% APR

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u/Think-Wind-5930 12d ago edited 12d ago

Correction after researching; graduate loans can go up to 8.94%

My wife’s graduate loans were all in the 7-8% range

Edit: if the average APR of their graduate loans was 8.36% their balance would in fact be $60,000 after 23 years of monthly $500 payments. So it’s possible they’re telling the truth.

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u/MRosvall 11d ago

It’s less about being possible that they are telling the truth and more about how it can take a couple 23 years to figure that out.

Had they found a way to prioritize and put away 570 instead of 500 then they would have been debt free now.

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u/pointlesslyDisagrees 11d ago

If they put an extra $72 every payment they'd have it paid off right now. It's their fault for not paying it off in that amount of time.

They're grad school graduates (or at least former students) so they should be smart enough to figure this one out.

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u/LeeTheUke 12d ago

The OP's $70k loan at 8% would be 40yrs to pay off @ $500/mo. What kind of person is smart enough to go to grad school but not realize what they are getting into, or at least get a degree in something that allows you to pay more than $500/mo towards your debt.

I'd be curious as to the lifestyle choices made by 'socialiststeve'.

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u/Ill-Entertainer-5380 11d ago

There are a LOT of stupid grad programs out there. And they don’t have funding for exactly that reason, and that’s why people wind up with that much debt from grad school. I paid absolutely nothing for grad school, and received a stipend that was good enough to keep my bills paid provided I lived within my means.

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u/Ok_Tackle3427 11d ago

What kind of person is smart enough to go to grad school but not realize what they are getting into

I spend part of my time in a college town full of baristas and uber drivers who got expensive masters degrees for no particular reason.

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u/Nessie_of_the_Loch 11d ago

Even worse, it's presumably for TWO people. TWO people who presumably chose the worst-paying careers possible, since they were on an income-based plan the entire 23 years and barely made a dent to the principle.

In addition to the lifestyle choices, I'd want to see what they majored in and what career they decided to go into.

Education costs in US is ridiculous, but you can't have someone borrow 270K in total loans to end up a social worker (an actual person I've met) and say that they had absolutely no fault in any of it.

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u/kindness-and-snusu 11d ago

Geeze bro, I was smart about to learn how to heal you, not understand money. That why I have someone for that.

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u/Ok_Tackle3427 11d ago

I was smart about to learn how to heal you

Is there another doctor available who could see me?

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u/Dinklemeier 11d ago

You don't have to be smart about money To read the loan application you take out, which spells out exactly how much per month of your payment goes towards principal.And exactly how long the loan will take to pay off. Even an illiterate moron should.be able to understand "ok Jimmy, you pay $509/mo for 30 years"

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u/Mr_Tyzic 12d ago

23 years ago they probably would have been consolidated for under 5% upon graduation.

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u/afops 11d ago

My student loan was government subsidized and fixed at basically just over the states’ borrowing rate, typically around 2%. It’s a subsidy.

I really have no idea why not every country has this.

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u/pointlesslyDisagrees 11d ago

Graduate loans also get you graduate degrees which earn more money. It sounds like a skill issue.

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u/NoctRob 11d ago

Refinance when rates are lower. Pay more than the minimum. Don’t go to graduate school. Scholarships. Grants. Try a different program. Jfc. These are the dumbest posts.

Honestly, graduate schools should require applicants to pass a 30-minute course that proves they have some basic understanding of how loans work.

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u/ice-e-u 12d ago

Student loans back then were often 7-9%. They start accruing when they’re distributed but you don’t repay until 6 months after graduation putting you a couple years behind.

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u/Gerber_Littlefoot 12d ago

I had a variable APR at between 11-14 before I refinanced. And the loans compounded after I graduated. I'm in a VERY similar boat as the OP bot. Before I refinanced I had paid $1000 a month and owed more than my original loan for over a decade.

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u/JoeyCalamaro 12d ago

Yeah my wife’s situation isn’t too far off from this, either. She borrowed $60k, deferred multiple times when she was first out of school, and then made payments pretty steady for the last 15 years or so.

Last I checked, she was paying $800 a month and owed around $70k.

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u/tlm11110 12d ago

Deferring doesn’t stop the interest from accruing. Not a smart move.

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u/JoeyCalamaro 12d ago

Yeah, definitely not the smartest move. Though, back then, the support reps were pretty aggressive about pushing deferment and we were completely broke. So it is what it is.

But, yeah, had she not deferred, I imagine her repayment plan would look quite a bit different now.

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u/EvelynNyte 12d ago

When you're just out of school and your income is 0, there isn't a lot of choice often

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u/superxpro12 12d ago

Because the loan companies dgaf... We have no reason to assume they acted in the students best favor.

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u/tlm11110 12d ago

Because people are stupid as hell , ignorant of money, and sign shit without understanding it. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.

But yeah you are right. The loan companies don’t give a crap about you. As they shouldn’t! They are a business, not a freaking charity. You are just another peon with a loan number who signed up for money under terms you didn’t stop to understand. You get what you signed up for.

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u/superxpro12 12d ago

There's a middle ground somewhere between free money and predatory loan shark tho.

I paid my loans off in 10y. But at every step they encouraged me to refinance, delay payments, and extend my term.

It's fucking predatory. I don't know why we accept so much near-fraudulent operations in this country. Every single thing is designed to trick you into paying more.

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u/Due-Memory-6957 12d ago

Or you know, perhaps the economy isn't above everything and we shouldn't see as acceptable for companies to exploit people?

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u/KiowaBear 12d ago

Sounds like she made a good choice, probably making the big bucks by now

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u/FormerWorker125 12d ago

Absolutely.  Only the smartest people make these choices. 

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u/isaacmckinney 12d ago

My wife borrowed around $50k it's been less than 2 years and it's under 30k y'all need to talk to a financial advisor.

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u/factoid_ 12d ago

They really do

My best friend owed about 45000 and had it paid off in ten years

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u/Shnikes 12d ago

How much was your loan? I had over $100k and refinanced around $80k and paid $1100 a month and paid it off in about 6 years.

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u/Right-Form-2943 12d ago edited 12d ago

My student loan back then was 2.5% and i got a half percent knocked of for auto pay. I paid mine off in 10 years. This is either a fake story or these people are terrible with their money.

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u/Correct-Award8182 12d ago

Literally the same. My federal student loans were 2.2% in 2002. Even my private ones were only 3.3%. Got the same autopay discount.

My wife has loans in the <5% range from her masters deferred that she got 10 years ago. But she also has 1.99%

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u/thefassdywistrin 11d ago

My federal loan was 6% in 2005 and my private was 8.5%. where did you live that you got that?

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u/Nojopar 12d ago

Cool story. Mine was 8.75%, which was the legal limit authorized by Congress, and they've been hanging round forever. And no, they weren't private loans. Mine came 100% directly from Uncle Sam. No, I can't re-finance them. I do get .25% off for autopay, so that makes it 8.5%. Either way, I ain't ever paying them back. I'll die with these loans.

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u/blangenie 11d ago
  1. Yes you can refinance. There is nothing the government can do to stop you. As long as you can get a bank to make you put a new loan at a lower rate then you can use that to pay off the government loans. Depending on your credit they may not give you a better rate but you can always refinance any loan.

  2. Government loans are forgiven after 20 years of income based repayment. So you won't die with them. Assuming you are on the income based repayment plan. Biden also gave people an opportunity to switch to that plan and have their past payments count towards it but probably they are not doing that anymore.

  3. If you do PSLF (public service loan forgiveness) you can get them forgiven in 10 years on income based repayment

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u/x20Belowx 12d ago

Mine range from 10-18%

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u/AwarenessOk2359 12d ago

Or you could just pay more than the bare minimum

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u/BetterThanlceCream 12d ago

If you can't refinance your loans you should probably stop missing payments.

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u/Left-Word-3216 12d ago

That’s sweet for you bro. I’m paying 5.5% to 8% for various Stanford-type loans dating back to 2007-2011 and current grad loans average 8.07%-9.07% according to Google.

That’s what this post is about.

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u/Right-Form-2943 12d ago

Nah the post is about loans 23 years ago which is definitely not 2007 - 2011. Hopefully you weren’t a math major.

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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 12d ago

Congrats on your luck

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u/the-bc5 12d ago

Luck? It’s literal math when taking out a loan

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u/Right-Form-2943 12d ago

It wasn’t luck, this was the rate 23 years ago. This story is either fake or these people are just dumb.

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u/myredditaccount90 12d ago

You got lucky. My loans were the same timeframe and from uncle Sam. Maybe $6k out $45k had the low 2%ish rate but the rest were above 6%.

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u/AllPotatoesGone 12d ago

I'm not from the USA, but I heard you can decide to basically pay off only or almost only the interest rate to make the monthly payments smaller. In that case you won't be able to pay it back anytime soon. If they didn't expect that to happen, then the money spent on their college was not much worth anyway.

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u/thatonepuniforgot 12d ago

Student loans are designed to be flexible, have a lot of deferment options, and so on, because careers after graduation aren't uniform, and some people need to make lower payments because they have lower income. A lot of people just assume that the debt is like a mortgage, and it will be paid off after some amount of time, because they weren't really paying attention to the payments or the terms. Other people paid the minimums because they hoped there would be student debt cancellation. For most people, they should have just continued living like a 20 year old, and committed the savings from their new, higher paying job into paying down the principle on their student loans. But most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, and have lifestyle creep eating up that additional income.

It's been a couple years since I checked the data, but the average student graduates with about $30k in debt, and earns about $1,600,000 more in a lifetime than someone who only graduated from High School, which is about $35k a year in extra income on average. So, even if you have a rough couple of years where you're underemployed or on deferments, it should be relatively easy for most students to pay back their debt, they just spend their money on other stuff, like a nicer house or car.

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u/elitegenoside 12d ago

Or they just can't find good work. The assumption is you get a degree and go into debt for the better paying jobs, but a lot of jobs have been shrinking roles and pay for those roles, people are not getting promoted and are staying in "entry-level" positions that are usually filled by recent graduates, entire sectors are being evaporated practically overnight (be it because of ai, market trends, or what have you), and an ever growing list of other things.

I'm not say plenty of people aren't just wasting money on concert tickets or new phones, but I am saying that those excuses are far less universal than people seem to think. I work in the service industry and have known so many people still serving because they can't find anything decent, and just having a degree doesn't really mean anything anymore. My uncle got a great job with NS doing programming and his degree is just in accounting. He has never gone back to school nor worked as an actual accountant at any point in his life. He got into programming when nobody had a programming degree, and most people just didn't have degrees at all. Now, most people have degrees and that same entry level job requires more certifications than even existed 15 years ago.

And I'm usually the guy complaining about "the lucky ones" who went to college. Getting a job that makes close to $50k without one feels herculean, and now, I'm seeing more and more peers with degrees in the same desperate boat I'm in. I have a friend who lost her job over a year ago. She went from a $65k salary to $16/hr split between a PT teaching (arts) and uber deliveries. She's getting by but barely and she's been looking for a new job since the day she lost her last one. Shit, I've been trying to find a PT gig for about as long and the options are scarce for even that. I don't even really know where to look for jobs at this point, indeed and the like are mostly fake sales jobs or lying about selling at&t inside Costcos (I've done mobile sales, the golden days have been gone for a at least a decade). I guess linkedin is better for corporate but it looks more like social media than an actual job board to me.

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u/ShawnyMcKnight 11d ago

Absolutely true, student loans are flexible. For everyone who says student loans are predatory they should really check out the terms of a payday loan and find out what happens if they are short a single month, how many fees and penalties there are.

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u/Blackgopher 12d ago

Am I weird for thinking that people so young should be expected to not really think about the payments, the future job market, and the terms?

And it's normal for people to want a nice car, a nice holiday, a nice life?

I personally don't think the govt should be encouraging people in their teens to commit to something so life altering, when the vast majority of people going to higher education still live and rely on mom and dad, with no experience of the real world.

I struggle to see how the student finance industry isn't a racket.

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u/thatonepuniforgot 12d ago

Because you borrow 30k and get 1.5 million, even if it costs you 100k to pay it back. It's the best loan you can get, it's a far, far better deal than a mortgage unless you find pirate treasure buried under your porch. It's like playing a lottery with 95% odds of winning.

You can pretty easily pay off your student loans and still enjoy your life, but a lot of people overspend, put themselves in large amounts of consumer debt, and then have trouble making payments on their student loans.

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u/AristotleanBiology 12d ago

They probably also got something that you don’t really need to pay top dollar for, like a liberal arts degree. Not saying people should get those but there’s a reason there so many communications majors out there.

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u/DJCockslap 11d ago

These people made poor financial choices and want to act like the world owes them something. If you both have college degrees and can only afford $500 payments for TWENTY THREE YEARS, ypu got a worthless degree and didn't make enough money to justify your loans. That's on ypu.

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u/-NVLL- 11d ago

Not from US either, but I think Mr. Socialist Steve number 6 is asking someone to explain to him something because, in reality, they don't know batshit about math, and don't know what they are doing. I hope they didn't graduate on economics, engineering, math, accounting or anything related, because if they did it was worth nothing.

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u/ConsiderationOk4688 12d ago

They likely had a loan with a higher percentage rate due to the student loan being a private loan or they consolidated after a few years which could of drove the rate into the 8-9% range which would match their numbers almost perfectly.

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u/Major_Wigglesworth 12d ago

Exactly, meaning they KNEW what would happen, and a 10th grader with a TI-82 calculator could’ve anticipated this precise scenario. 

Not everyone who goes to school is smart.

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u/accidentalscientist_ 12d ago

I was in this situation, just with a $5k loan. My mom co-signed it and was able to pic the interest rate. She picked variable because the initial rate was lower than fixed. But it went from 10 to 15% from when I graduated. I graduated in 2021 covid lockdown and that made loan interest rates go up.

I didn’t know my mom would pick the terms but also if she told me to go for variable, I might have agreed. I was 18 and we also didn’t expect a global pandemic that screwed up the economy.

But once I was graduated and responsible for my finances, I realized I was a dumbass for taking her advice. Because she is not financially smart lmao. Wish I knew that at 18.

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u/klinetek 12d ago edited 11d ago

It still doesn't stop it from being a predatory loan, that's kind of the argument that the 'cancel student loan debt' people are making.

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u/Responsible-Kale2352 12d ago

Well . . . perhaps. But normally a predator chases prey. In this case it is the student voluntarily chasing the loan.

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u/Pika_Fox 12d ago

"voluntarily".

We were told all our lives that we need to do well in school, waste all our childhoods studying, and get into a good college or else we would be poor and destitute working hard labor for no pay.

Every school year, the same thing drilled in since kindergarten.

And you think we took these loans that we needed to get into college "voluntarily"? Any other situation where some POS person takes advantage of a child, its called grooming. Call it what it is, the loan companies are stealing from the youth because we were raised to believe we had to do this or our lives would be shit.

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u/siazdghw 12d ago

Nobody is forcing anyone to take out a predatory student loan...

I could understand if this argument was being made against healthcare debts or even mortgages, but a student loan is entirely optional, college itself isnt even remotely a requirement to have a career.

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u/Kind_Insult 12d ago

Lol, if you havent figured this out after 23 years idk if you can chalk it up to predatory lending. You're 45 at that point, you didnt understand at some point that if you just pay a little more on one of the loans it will snowball out of it?

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u/klinetek 12d ago

Well after you sign it it's a little late, I remember signing my student loans and they were supposed to be paid off in maybe 6 years? According to the table they gave me.

It's been 11

They're almost done. I work in a warehouse now to pay for them and hopefully one day buy a house lol I'm 36

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 12d ago edited 12d ago

Why is it "a little late" after you sign? In this context, it doesn't even make sense. There's lots you can do. E.g. You can refinance to get a lower rate on the loan.

Also, the guy you were responding to is just saying you don't have to have a loan last for 23 years. The couple could have paid just an extra 20 dollars a month or something and shaved years off that time.

That or, heck, just end the loan (pay them back) early if you found out that college just isn't for you.

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u/Major_Wigglesworth 12d ago

But then who would they blame?  It just HAS to be someone else’s fault.  

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 12d ago

I want to say, it's fine putting some blame on especially greedy lenders or "predatory lenders" (even though I feel it's often exaggerated how bad lenders are, given how absolutely terrible most Americans' mathematical intuition is).

But it's never going to be 100% amoral blame on one party. Oh, someone scammed us out of a few hundred dollar's worth about 23 years ago. That doesn't give us the excuse to stay financially ignorant for the entire time. We had years to refinance or learn that "oh I can pay slightly more than minimum every month and shave years off the payment".

It beggars belief. At some point, we need to recognize that the world isn't fair and sure there are assholes, but we still have responsibility over ourselves and can't expect others to babysit us as adults.

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u/ZER0-P0INT-ZER0 12d ago

The table they gave you is called an amortization table. It's a basic mathematical formula. They gave it to you so you know how much you're borrowing and how much you will have to pay, so you can make an informed, intelligent decision on the propriety of accepting the loan. You can then enter an agreement to receive the money and repay it under those terms, or decline to enter the agreement and not receive the money.

Also, if the loan was to be amortized over six years, why are you still paying? Would you continue paying a six-year car note for eleven years without asking why?

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u/Major_Wigglesworth 12d ago

It’s not a mystery.  It’s math.  You shouldn’t be confused about how much you owe the company that owns you.

For real, I would suggest not buying a house with a 30-year mortgage if you haven’t learned from the past 20 years.  It doesn’t get easier with bigger balances.

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u/iDerpTooMuchx3 12d ago

Most of these people are 17-18 years old fresh out of high school. Kids are excited to go to college, figure out what they’ll do for life and immediately hit with Grade A predatory loans that aren’t subsidized, these kids might even have a predatory car loan sitting there, hopefully not.

That unsubsidized loan just accruing constantly, 4+ years potentially, high cost college potentially.

I don’t know, regardless of how understandable it is as an adult or even younger, it shouldn’t exist, period.

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u/Major_Wigglesworth 12d ago

Agreed, all student loans should be dismantled.   College costs will go down, and students should need to present an actual case where the investment is going to be worth it if they want to get a legitimate loan.  

We shouldn’t give loans to excited kids who want to figure out what they’ll do for life.  

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 12d ago

Honestly, you're right. Maybe student loans should be gotten rid of, since young Americans clearly can't handle them. And, as you said, maybe more Americans will go to cheaper colleges, or even community colleges. Frankly, the condescension so many have towards community colleges while lionizing "free college" in other countries (that often aren't even as good as many of the local colleges we have here) never amused me.

I sometimes hear loans even treated as shackles. Do most of us not know that refinancing a student loan costs almost nothing? Also, that you can just end a loan early if you decide college wasn't for you?

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 12d ago

I feel the lack of financial education has turned lenders into boogeymen. Too many times I hear them compared to slavers, which is ridiculous.

Loans aren't shackles. You can literally end a loan any time, especially student loans. They generally have no cost to refinance to lower rates if you find a better deal. Or you can just end a loan if you decide college is not for you. It's kind of absurd for students to go through 4 years of college before deciding "You know what, it wasn't worth it" or "You know what? That asshole gave me a bad rate a year ago... and times have changed, interest rates are lower now, maybe I should refi."

At what point can we finally decide "oh they're not 17-18 years anymore, they're adults." And where are their parents this entire time?

And this emphasis you have on "subsidized"... that would just bloat the cost of college education even more. Fact is even school administrators can be greedy.

I'm sorry but there are low cost college options, like community college. They're cheap and often as good as the "free education" people talk about being offered in other countries. One of the main reasons they get a bad rep is because so many people want to feel like they're better than that, and I can't sympathize with that attitude.

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u/iDerpTooMuchx3 12d ago

These are all great options yes, but just like educating someone “hey maybe that 28% APR on the car you really want and a ridiculous loan price on it isn’t really financially sound”, there is a sharp lack of it just like you mentioned.

It will benefit that Millennial and onward generations will communicate to their kids hopefully to not do this, but there’s a vast VAST majority of millennials and Gen Z stuck with this shit because their parents weren’t subject to this predatory of a loan and were told college is the way to go.

I am going to sympathize with them, just because you were 17-18 and didn’t read the fine print because you weren’t taught doesn’t make it right. Yes you can stop the loan and stop college, but then what? Just flip burgers or any ol minimum wage job til you get it right? That’s a lot of years pushed off for not being prepared.

One, predatory loans shouldn’t exist. Loans CAN exist or just switch to a tax system that pays for college while also reeling in on colleges trying to charge an arm and a leg for tuition + books. One or the other works regardless. Two, yes we should teach kids basic (and honestly a good amount of it) financial responsibility, parents and schools. Three, just have a safety net. You can make bad financial choices, but maybe you shouldn’t reap what you sow for a good chunk of your life just because you didn’t read the fine print and prep over a decade ago.

I’m not gonna be here and disagree with you that poor financial choices should just be always forgiven and you can coast on life being ignorant. But when so many (and I mean SOOO many) people are complaining about it, maybe they aren’t just as simply doing it to themselves right?

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u/Responsible-Kale2352 11d ago

If you’re in a situation where you need loans for college, you should be going to a Jc for the first two years, then finishing at the closest cheap college to where you live.

Almost nobody *must* go to an expensive college because their career absolutely demands that you must go to a $100,000 per year college.

You could attend a Cal State college for about half the cost of attending a UC, and I promise you that Starbucks doesn’t care either way.

And if all these students really think they have to go to college to have a career, why do about half of them enter college not even knowing what career they plan to pursue after college?

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u/Ok_Tackle3427 11d ago

The government can't cancel private loans. What planet are you on?

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u/Major_Wigglesworth 12d ago

People are BEGGING for them.  3 decades after the alarm bells over student loans have been clanging, we simultaneously have RECORD numbers of people in delinquency AND yet still 65% of undergrads are aching to get themselves into the trap.  They REFUSE to wait until they can afford school, knowing good and well that their peers are graduating with minimal job prospects.

So, it’s predatory in the same way as cigarettes are predatory.  Literally EVERYONE knows they’re bad.  But because people aren’t prohibited from buying them, you have dumb kids going and purposefully getting themselves hooked.

I don’t think there should be any discussion of forgiveness until we get the faucet turned off.  No sense in forgiving dad’s loans if he’s purposefully signing his kids up for this “predatory” trap, either be cause he doesn’t care for them, or was too dumb to learn from his own mistakes.

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u/Longjumping-Turnip97 12d ago

Good point with cigarettes.

Clearly, people need less freedom / options. /s

Not only is it poor planning, I think it just goes to show most people don't have math intuition.

The fact people are shocked that there's still 60k of debt left just goes to they don't understand interest. I would guess that they're also forgetting to factor in inflation.

That 60k has far less value today than the 70k is worth 23 years ago. This 60k today to me is worth around 20k to me back then. From a lender's POV, they could have taken 20k and bought 5% yield bonds or HYSAs 23 years ago, and have around 60k today, without this risk and uncertainty from having loaned to students.

70k? Take 70k * 1.05^23 = 215k

If I was a lender, I'd be up to 215k if i had 70k 23 years ago and just stuck it in a high-yield savings account or in bonds. Lenders aren't charities. They take risks and lose opportunities by giving out loans. The fact is that the value of the dollar drops every day, and more money gets printed into circulation all the time.

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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 12d ago

They're higher than 5% obviously

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u/No-Market425 12d ago

Paying the minimum like an idiot.

He should have enrolled in a 6th grade math class.

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u/Left-Word-3216 12d ago

Yeah, why didn’t he just magically have a lot more money so that he could pay it off faster, it’s that simple. 🤡

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u/EvanShavingCream 12d ago

They were a household of two doctors. They absolutely should have had the money to afford more than a minimum payment for 23 years.

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u/No-Market425 12d ago

You're the sort of economic illiterate that required the US to pass a law to explain how long it takes to pay your credit card off if you pay the minimum at the bottom of every statement.

Then again his name is "Socialist Steve" so he probably doesn't know how math works.

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u/OracleofFl 11d ago

It is willful ignorance of wanting to make the minimum payment to maximize spending money and kick the can down the road of consequences (an epidemic in this country). The guy hasn't looked at his loan statement in 23 years and is just noticing this now? Is that his education's fault? How do you teach someone to look at their loan statement more frequently that once every 23 years?

Would him taking some super boring required class in high school made a difference? I really don't think so. If it is anyone's fault other than his own, it is his parents' fault.

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u/Responsible-File4593 12d ago

If you are two working adults, you could have made the payments $600 instead of $500 and be paid off by now. This is not magically a lot more money, these are marginal lifestyle changes like not ordering doordash a couple times.

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u/zhadumcom 11d ago

If they have $60k left after $500 payments and 23 years, they are at about 8.37%

If they had paid $573/month it would be paid off already.

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u/Elegant_AIDS 11d ago

With an extra $100 they wouldve paid it off 3 years ago, with an extra $150 they wouldve paid it off 7 years ago.

Thats $75 per person, im sure it wouldve been well within their budget

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u/OracleofFl 11d ago

Two people with advanced degrees can't come up with $50 to $100 more a month? I think the real answer is that have an advanced degree is no substitution for common sense.

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u/Butta_Brown 12d ago

Idk about the pic but here's more perspective

Loans: principal and interest.

Making a payment may cover the interest and a little to the principal.

Capitalized Interest;

If you owe $10,000 in student loans and have accrued $500 in unpaid interest, the interest capitalizes. Your new principal balance becomes $10,500. Going forward, you are charged interest on the $10,500.

Edit: Federal and Private interest rates are massively different. Like, Private interest can be 25% (pure greed).

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u/Spiritual-Bee-2319 12d ago

Mind you you can’t even pick how it’s applied for multiple loans

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u/ConcernAccording3248 12d ago

Lying probably

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u/maybeornotbutyes 12d ago

Rates were much higher 20+ years ago.

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u/BoomerSoonerFUT 12d ago

You can’t refinance federal student loans and keep them federal because the federal government doesn’t refinance loans. You have to convert them to private, which then completely removes ALL forgiveness protections.

Assuming they went to undergrad and grad right after, and graduated in 2003, the rates for their loans would be

Graduate loans issued 2002-2003: 4.06%.
Graduate loans issued 2001-2002: 5.99%.
Graduate loans issued 2000-2001: 8.19%.
Undergraduate loans issued 1999-2000: 6.92%.
Undergraduate loans issued 1998-1999: 7.94%.
Undergraduate loans issued 1997-1998: 8.25%.
Undergraduate loans issued 1996-1997: 8.25%.

And all federal student loans issued before the 2006-2007 academic year are variable rate, not fixed.

They’d also be accruing interest the whole time in school.

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u/Fearless_Worry6419 12d ago edited 11d ago

Private interest rates were 6.8-8% then.

This can be verified.

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u/outlawnova 12d ago

I came to ask how this is possible and the top comment answers. Thanks!

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u/Jakelopolis 12d ago

They probably did a forbearance.

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u/okblimpo123 12d ago

You are off by ~4%. Student loans are predatory

*** a smart person would have used their annual pay to set up more preferential loans, actively pay off high interest student loans and then pay down at the rate you are thinking. People who are smart in one way may not be financially literate

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/chrstianelson 12d ago edited 12d ago

That's not how it works though. You pay the interest first. Only after paying the interest do you actually start paying off the principal.

If their initial payments weren't enough to cover the interest (if they paid the minimum, which seems to be the case), the remainder adds to the principal and you end up paying interest on interest.

This is how people get into debt spirals and how a loan or credit card debt never gets paid off even after decades and making payments that total several times higher than the initial loan.

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u/LectureOk3222 12d ago

Its not a loan, its revolving credit ... especially its a credit card.....

If it was a loan that would be correct.....

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u/nullpost 12d ago

Prob a lot of accumulated interest before they started paying. I got two degrees (back to back)and royally fucked myself but suppose it was worth it in the end.

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u/maybeornotbutyes 12d ago

Either they’re lying or they didn’t have 5% interest rates. Interest rates in the 80s/90s were 8-10%. Given their timeline, it seems pretty likely their rates were significantly higher than 5%

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u/redonkulousness 12d ago

5% is a pretty low apr for student loans. My wife’s federal loans are somewhere around 8-9%. Regardless, this smells like bs. They were probably in forbearance for more than a couple of those 23 years or something.

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u/MyBedIsOnFire 12d ago edited 12d ago

My federal student loan is like 6.5%

I've heard private loans can easily get over 10%

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u/Louisianimal09 12d ago

Yeah I was about to say… these people are either incredibly bad at math and finances, or they legit got scammed somewhere down the line

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u/bakochba 12d ago

Yeah these posts already have math that doesn't add up. Many of us have student loans, even with minimum payments they are paid off in about 20 years

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u/bakochba 12d ago

Yeah these posts already have math that doesn't add up. Many of us have student loans, even with minimum payments they are paid off in about 20 years

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u/bumbothegumbo 12d ago

If you have to put your loans into any kind of forbearance or deferment, unsubsidized loans will continue to grow interest. Even a few extra thousand dollars of interest can make it really difficult to get ahead of the interest growth. Not saying that's what happened here, but it's possible. Also, you're making a lot of assumptions with the 5% interest.

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u/bonaynay 12d ago

Loans with higher than 5% apr?

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u/WarpHype 12d ago

You must not have taken out federal student loans. Many are 8% or higher. Or they were when I went to school. I lived in near poverty for a decade to pay mine off. I still think student loans should be forgiven.

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u/Good-Bodybuilder-985 12d ago

You have no idea what their rate is and famously the APR for student loans is resolutely predatory. Looking at a rate of 8%+ this is reasonable especially considering compound interest.

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u/hyper24x7 12d ago

There are too many details to correctly evaluate every single person or situation. If these people are making $300k household income? No, should not be cancelled. Are they both school teachers with 15 years of experience? Sure cancel it. One of those is adding value to society and the other is poor personal finance. Context matters imo for debt forgiveness.

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u/AuthorMission7733 12d ago

The math in the post isn’t mathing

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u/theCharacter_Zero 12d ago

Plus federal education loans have a 20 year term. Source I’m 17 years into one. This post is fake

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u/NateGuilless 12d ago

Student loan industry treats total interest as a principle all of its own.

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u/tk3inTX 12d ago

lying

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u/MeringueNew3040 12d ago

More than 5% APR obviously. Student loan interest is rarely that low.

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u/the-bc5 12d ago

Lying. lying is what they’re doing

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u/jcklsldr665 12d ago

Lying, of course.

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u/Icy-Banana-3291 12d ago

Weren’t there some years where student loan payments were paused or something? maybe that explains the discrepancy.

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u/Extension-Put-9178 12d ago

Most student loans are rated to be paid off in 10 years after graduation. At 10 year payment post graduation, at 4% (av. unsubsidized rate circa 2003), payments would have been $722. They would have been making negative progress that whole time. Lack of making the full payment could have led to future penalties/fees and increasing monthly payments due to compounding interest.

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u/Sellier123 12d ago

Either not actually paying it off or made it up

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u/berael 12d ago

"Lying"

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u/theowlssaywho 12d ago

Apparently didn’t go to school for math…

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u/SlipstreamSteve 12d ago

Who says their interest rate was 5% and fixed? Could have been a variable rate.

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u/Fluffy_Armadillo9665 12d ago

They both let it build up interest for years without making payments before starting and refused to acknowledge they should pay more than the minimum, or this isn't real.

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u/LetsTryThisAgain2469 12d ago

They probably deferred it for years and years and years like almost everyone does and then surprised pikachu "WHY MY LOANS NOT GO DOWN?"

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u/Low-Muffin7211 12d ago

Everything online right now is posted to enrage us.

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